Armour thyroid?

[bubblepony]

Why does everyone want armour thyroid and why do so many doctors not want to prescribe it?

[peggy64]

there are several reasons people want armour. I will give you a few, and someone else can fill in what I leave out.

It is natural,
Has all the thyroid hormones our own body makes---T1, t2, T3, t4, and has calcitonin.
Your body will not become immune to it, like some people do with synthroid.

Drs don't like it, because Big pharma has talked it down because they can not really make any money off of it because it is natural, like they can the synthetic drugs.

Thats all I can think of for now. I have this memory issue because of this thyroid issue.

[bubblepony]

Thank you!  Thats great information!

[goolarra]

Not everyone wants Armour, but for many people, it's the only real alternative out there.  Your choices are T4-only meds, T3/T4-combos, T3-only (rare and usually temporary) and dessicated pig thyroid.  

My endo's reason for not using it is that it has so much T3 in it.  Armour has T4:T3 in a ratio of about 4-5:1.  Our properly functioning thyroids produce T4:T3 in a ratio of about 20:1.  So, Armour has four to five times more T3 than our thyroids would produce.  He feels that if you need to add T3, it's easier to control using a synthetic, where the T4 and T3 are in separate pills and can be manipulated individually.  That said, lots of people do extremely well on Armour

I think it's important to keep as many options as possible open...we have very few.

[peggy64]

Actually ratio is 4:1. there are plenty of good websites to check this out.

[goolarra]

Actually, since Armour is a natural product, the ratio varies...depends on the pig!  It's 4-to-5:1.

My feeling is that the best we can do as thyroid patients is to encourage our doctors to keep an open mind about all therapies.  We have very few choices.

[stella5349]

Great thought goolara. I hope that we can get these doctors open to ALL options if needed.

Really - it's the patient that suffers, when the doors are shut on certain meds.

I cringe when I read the "p i g " word put so bluntly though. :)

[Smilerdeb]

The other reason why many wont prescribe Armour here in Australia is that if you have a heart problems or palps or fibrillations, that it can put your health at risk by taking a high concentrated dose of T3.
Had I not been successful on T4 alone, I would opt for the T3 (cytomel) but I am doing fine on T4 med alone.
My Doc has told me that because of a history of Atrial Fibrillations, there is no Doc on this earth that would prescribe Armour for me.
A lot do well on it, some dont.
Each to their own I say and whatever gives you the quality of life that we deserve.

I have no issues with Armour and doing great on T4 alone.

Armour was banned here in Australia due to the inconsistancy of T3 in each batch of Armour.

My personal attitude is that every Endo should do yearly 'refresher' courses on the Thyroid.
It seems my Doc knows more about it than the Endo who I fired.

[hope4thegoodstuff]

I agree that every endo should do a yearly refresher course.  that is a wonderful idea.  I kind of wish the generals would too.  My g.p. was terrified of tracking the T3 and T4.  He was strictly a TSH person and I'm not yet sure that my endo may be that way too.  Will find out in a couple of weeks.  : )

[goolarra]

I don't mean "pig" to be pejorative.  Should I say dessicated "porcine" thyroid?  I'm not into euphemisms or being politically correct.  ;-)  That's what it is...I have no problem with that whatsoever.  If it helps just ONE person, I'm all for it.

[stella5349]

You don't need to explain. Not at all - I know you meant it in a good way.

It still bothers me to some degree on what Armour actually is. BUT it saved my life and I just need to deal with it I suppose.

Thanks for all you do!

[Smilerdeb]

Stella....

Its strange that people are against Armour YET they use pig valves to fix a mitral valve prolapse.
Work that one out lol.

I guess that if I ever needed a replacement valve, I wouldnt refuse one from a pig lol.

[stella5349]

yep - hearts too.

I remember a story decades ago.

whatever works is my motto.

[Smilerdeb]

Yep..same here.

[AMG3369]

I bless the day my endo thru up her hands and said "I have tried everything and you still have no T3. I have to put you on Armour and we don't prescribe it". She put me on Armour but it was the last day I was in her office. My new PCP asked me right away if I was on Armour, so now he is regulating it. I don't care if it is not consistant, I feel better than I have in years and have lost 12 lbs. I take 210 a day

[Ecologic]

AMG3369: 210, that's 3 grains a day? That's a lot, did you start slow and increase slowly the dosage? I am currently taking 1.5 grain = 90 and increasing slowly to 2 grains.

[Kristy2078]

It really doesn't matter whether your med is natural or not.  Granted, armour contains other forms of thyroid hormones and other stuff and the synthetic stuff doesn't but it all depends on how well one responds to the med.

I highly doubt one becomes desensitized to the synthetic meds (after all, T4 in Armour has the same structure as the T4 in the synthetic meds and the same goes for other hormones in these meds).

You also have to consider other possible factors that are making your thyroid go out of whack.  For example, fluoride.  I am not going to say it is definitely possible for you, but it is possible for some people.  My thyroid did get much worse after moving from well water to city water (and started to drink much more tea), so fluoride as a culprit for my hypothryroidism is a possibility for me.  Another possibility is hashimoto's.  It is an autoimmune disease, so your thyroid hormones are bound to go crazy, no matter what meds you are taking.  It is also possible to have stabilized naturally and taking Armour was just a coincidence.  Lack of vitamin D and/or B can mimic some of hypo symptoms, so without being treated for these makes hypo seems more difficult to treat.

I personally believe that Armour should be a last resort and that other factors should be checked out.

[Smilerdeb]

I am glad that you are doing good on Armour.
I have nothing against it and wish Australia would 'lift' the ban as it originally was first manufactured in New Zealand.
I have the attitude that if something doesnt work for you then you find something that does...and dont stop until you do get it.

As I said in my posting..if T4 med didnt work for me, then I wouldnt hesitate to take T3 med and if I was able to take Armour..I most certainly would.
I may well just be 'one of those people' who may need the help of a pig with a new vlave somewhere down the line.
I dont' knock' anything that gives quality of life.

I just feel for those that could do well on Armour here in Australia but cant get it.

[freedommouse]

I have been on Armour for two years, before that Synthroid for 3. In the last few weeks all of a sudden I felt like my dose was really high. I had not lost any weight but have been back in the gym for 6 months. While I haven't lost weight I have lost fat and gained muscle. How will that affect the dose? I tryed lowering the amount from 90 mg to 75 by cutting the pills down. What a disaster. My hair is leaving my scalp hurts all the time. Memory, what memory! The list of changes is long. Now I am on the lowwww end of the spectrum. Life suffers all around me while I try to be normal.
I will be going to the Dr next week but am dissapointed with the absence of knowledge on my GPs behalf. I have been going to him since the Endo Dr wouldn't perscribe Armour. It has been a crazy few years since I had my thyroid out due to Hasimotos Disease.
Also has any one heard that Armour changed its formula in the past few months. I think they changed the binder. That changes how some people uptake the hormone. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
                         Thanks in advance! Lea (Freedommouse)

[stella5349]

There is a bunch of information available and yes the Armour was changed. For most - it has not been pleasant.

I can provide you with alot of information . PM me if you wish to look at some of it.

[magpieannie]

I'd get off Armour and switch to compounded dessicated ASAP! If you do well on it, great!  If not, Naturethroid/ Westhroid (dessicated porcine) (RLC Labs Pharm.Co.) will be available by mid November, and many people do great on it! They (RLC) are having production issues (supply&demand) due to the issues with Armour (Forest Labs Pharm. Co.) and everyone switching over to them all at once. Their hormone is the same as always and are not having any issues with the FDA.

[LazyMoose]

It would be nice to finally find out why synthetics don't work well for some people. I went round and round with docs on my journey to try dessicated, and of course they all said synthetics duplicated what my thyroid used to make. I then reminded them that my thyroid did not make fillers and release activators ect. just hormone. They could not answer that one. They forget about basic chemistry 101. My GP said he was specifically trained in medical school NOT to use dessicated as it was dangerous. This was a very respected University mind you! That is what we are up against!

It may be the other stuff besides the hormone in the synthetics that our body rejects. Example: synthetic resin stints for arteries mimic a real arteries, yet they need to be coated with a compound to trick the body into thinking the stint is a real artery. Sometime this tricks the body, sometimes the body reject it. A stint really is a synthetic 'artery' that is supposed to work the same. So much for synthetics being the cure all.

[stella5349]

The major reason why T4 synthetics may not work for some is b/c it 100% relies on conversion from the liver to make active T3 to balance thyroid hormones. If the liver is unable to convert the med for what ever reason then the ratios of hormones are not correct for the body.

So many - that lose their function either to surgery - RAI - or natural Hashimoto disease, killing it off - and placed on synthetic T4 only find that now the liver is relied upon to do ALL the job that their thyroid did too. The thyroid releases direct T3 - no one can argue that. So when the gland is no longer functioning -no more direct T3 is coming from that and the amount of thyroid T3 hormone - is now dependant on the liver and the T4 meds.

Swollowing the synthetic T4 meds add to the depletion of hormones too. The acid in the stomach will deplete the meds ability to release a higher amount of T4 - that proceeds to the liver for conversion.

That is why you find many are in a high dose of T4 medication. There is no ability to take it sublingually - nor would anyone want to do this alone with a T4 med - so swollowing causes depletion right away.

Its a blessing to find a person with the ability to manage hypothyroidism with a T4 medication, but for so many - it's just not enough. On the flip side of this - adding T3 or going to natural desiccated T4/T3 combos must be watched closely too. The heart is directly effected with T3 hormones. It's thought that T3 (active) is present in many heart failure patients. Studies have proven that a vast amjority of heart failure patients have a higher risk of death - if there is too much active T3 in the system.

we require care from our professionals - all around care - and too just say - T3 is dangerous is wrong. Managing T3 medications for people who need it is what should be taught in these universities.

[LazyMoose]

Ahh!!!!! The liver converts into active T3. I forgot reading about that  some time ago during my brain fog days! Thanks for the simple explanation Stella!