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Do you take vitamin D?
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Do you take vitamin D?

I have noticed all my hashi friends have very low vitamin D.  Of course I take 1 5000 unit pill every day and have been for the past 2 years.   I am sure a lot of us do, but someone just sent me this study that I find very alarming regarding Vit D  and auto immune diseases and wanted to get the gang's feedback on this:


http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-04/arf-vdm040809.php
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1809109_tn?1331807377
Oo very interesting, thanks for posting this! I was actually talking with my dietician about this. She said most Australians are ok on Vitamin D so taking a multivitamin on top is just too much. But I spent 22 years in Washington state, there's no sun there- she still said I should get it checked to see if I need it before going on a multivitamin because too many people are being given too much.

And on the other hand my mom (medical assistant) and MIL (psychiatric nurse) have both been saying I should look into getting a good multivitamin with vitamin D because I can't do dairy, can't handle the sun (got a sun burn in the car with the windows up), and have Hashimoto's.

Does any one have any articles or journals that rebut this info? I'm so confused about what multivitamin to take.
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681148_tn?1285160820
Mercola is now saying that people should be taking 8,000 iu vitamin D everyday.  One thing he is consistent about is that multi vitamins are a waste.

He gets much information from the Vitamin D Council.  I suggest going to their website.  

You are doing well with the 5,000 iu, because many doctors freak out about that much.  But, what is suggested is simply this:  Since you have been taking 5,000 iu everyday for a while now, and if it's been about 6 months, have your vitamin D levels checked.  You need a bottom or baseline of a minimum of 60 before reaching optimal level, but you can go as high as 80-100 for optimal level.

I speak from experience as I had SEVERE vitamin D deficiency before I found out about all this.  My level was almost non-existent and it almost killed me.  I can't be in the sun either.  I burn way too easily, so I definitely understand that one.  I have thyroid symptoms but can't get anywhere beyond the TSH test, which is ridiculous when I has Hirsutism like the plague and symptoms of a sluggish thyroid.  I think I'm in thyroid limbo land.  I can't get tested for the free t3 or free t4 or thyroid antibodies when the TSH is testing in the normal range.  No doctor I see is interested in doing anything more.  I fear I will be stuck in limbo land forever.  I am certain I have low iodine, too, but no one seems all that interested in checking to make sure.

Dairy is a food industry lie.  It is the wrong form of vitamin D that is fortified into dairy products.  And, it is insufficient and won't make one bit of difference if you are low.  You need vitamin D3, the natural form of vitamin D.  The dairy industry fortifies with the inferior vitamin D2, the man made form of vitamin D.  The only time the D2 is a good thing to use is when taking the prescription to boost levels in vitamin D deficient patients quickly.  Forget the dairy, because it's a myth.

If you go to the Vitamin D Council's website, you will find that you absolutely must take magnesium with your vitamin D supplements in order to truly benefit from vitamin D supplements.

It is actually very difficult to get vitamin D toxicity.  While it occasionally happens, it is very difficult to make it happen at the dose you're taking.  The dose you're taking at 5,000 iu is merely a MAINTENANCE dose of vitamin D.  You are not likely to get vitamin D toxicity from this dosage.  Only people who are sensitive to taking oral vitamin D would have something to worry about.  Certain auto immune illnesses can cause something called vitamin D dysregulation or they can cause you to be intolerant to taking oral vitamin D.  This doesn't sound like what you've been experiencing, so you really have nothing to worry about at the dosage you're taking.

If your read enough of Mercola's articles and the Vitamin D Council's articles on vitamin D, you will find that the new RDA that the FDA was willing to increase to is still pitifully LOW.  They were only interested in the bare minimum for bone health and not on helping with immune function.  So, 5,000 iu is actually the MINIMUM that you should take.  You cannot get vitamin D toxicity at that dose unless you can't tolerate oral vitamin D.
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1139187_tn?1355710247
But the article specifically addresses vit D in correlation to auto immune disease, not a normal person taking it.
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Avatar_f_tn
I currently take 50000 IU once a week for the next 12 weeks, & 4000 iu OTC.

This is the 3rd 12 week regime I have been on in 4 yrs, but have been on the OTC for over 7 months only. I get low on Vit D as well.

I really don't worry about too much or too little, I can't tell a difference one way or the other. I am lactose intolerant so I have to get my Vit D from somewhere.
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168348_tn?1379360675
My Vitamin D would not remain in the good lab zone and I had symptoms that wouldn't go away on the otc Vit D .. just wasn't enough for me so they put me back on prescription Vit D 50,000 iu's/week .... I get less gastric distress from the prescription one, too.

They ruled out anything else causing the lack of Vit D with no real answer

C~
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681148_tn?1285160820
I didn't have a real answer for the vitamin D deficiency either.
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681148_tn?1285160820
I do know that often people with auto immune issues have trouble taking oral vitamin D in any form because they have a reaction to it, like diarrhea or something.

But, then again, I know others with thyroid conditions, like Hashimoto, who do take some vitamin D (don't know how much), who haven't had to change their thyroid medication dosage or anything, who are okay taking the amount of vitamin D they do take.
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1756321_tn?1377771734
The first Australian nationwide study of vitamin D deficiency has revealed 31% of Australians are deficient and 73% have vitamin D levels considered by many experts as below the optimal for musculoskeletal health. 73% of Aussies need more vitamin D for optimal health!



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1809109_tn?1331807377
Where do you get your information I beg you?! I've been trying to find journal articles because I just don't know if I can trust the different information I'm getting. I mean my dietician was definitely no MD, but she still had a master's on her wall. (Admittedly I couldn't read what it said so it could have been a Masters in basket weaving.) However my regular gp has the most aloof attitude, acting as if my questions are stupid and I should just blinding follow dr's. Yet I'm having the hardest time finding places to go for it. Do you subscribe to specific articles or websites?
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1756321_tn?1377771734
Hi ducky :)  I am subscribed to quite a few health sites such as Natural News, Dr Mark Hyman, Chris Kresser, Mercola, Medscape. There is also google scholar. If you are not sure where that is, the top part of google with news, images etc..there is the word "more" at the end. Click on that for extra stuff..like scholar..oh and the translator! love that!

As for a free medical site, pubmed is excellent.  You can type anything you want into the search bar. For the vitamin D study i mention, you can either type into the search bar "Prevalence of vitamin D deficiency and its determinants in Australian adults aged 25 years and older: A national, population-based study." or the number of the study 22168576.  There are more articles online such as "Vitamin D deficiency strikes one-third of Australians" by the Deakin University Newsroom.  I'll send you the copies if you can't find them. :)
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681148_tn?1285160820
To add to what was already said, and Red_Star would have read this along the way, too, since she is also subscribed to the Mercola newsletters, is that in modern society the majority of people spend their waking hours indoors.  Therefore, even in subtropical areas of the world, such as much of Australia, the vast majority of people are still deficient or below levels for optimal health.

Also, the one thing you will find to be true in your own experiences is the differences between seeing a conventional doctor for vitamin D help and a natural doctor for vitamin D help.  Conventional medicine isn't looking for vitamin D levels that are below optimal health.  Once you get your levels at or above 30, they're no longer interested in monitoring your vitamin D levels.  Natural medicine, on the other hand, would continue to be interested in knowing where your vitamin D levels are and would be more interested in seeing you reach a minimum of 60-80.  Mercola is saying that 100 is best.

Again, while there is such a thing as vitamin D toxicity, the incidences of this happening are so low, that there is nothing to worry about with the amount of oral vitamin D you are taking.  Recently, Mercola was talking about 8,000 iu of vitamin D3 rather than 5,000 iu of vitamin D3.  So long as you're taking 5,000 iu as your maintenance dose, the smidgen more you get in things like supplemented dairy products or the little bit in your multivitamin are not going to push you into vitamin D toxicity.  Especially not if Mercola is now talking about 8,000 iu of vitamin D3.
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798555_tn?1292791151
These higher levels of vitamin D are new to me. My endo's lab goes by the 'normal' suggestions of D 25-OH (D3) being;

deficiency under 25 ng/mL
insufficiency 25-30
optimal greater than 30 (with no limit)

So by some new opinion, this is outdated?

30 is a long way from 60 or 100. I tested D-25 at 37 ng/mLand the endo was OK with that. Outside a lot, but not much sun up here.

Can someone feel a difference between 30 and 100 for D levels?

What symptoms can you feel with low D levels?

I have taken 5000 iu of D3 and felt nothing from it, obviously thats not much though.
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1139187_tn?1355710247
i can't feel s7hit either way.  Honestly, if you told me to eat dog pooh id feel better, id be the first one in line.

My labs showed me vit D 24, so i started to build it.  But honestly, this is the least of my worries.  And after reading that report, it makes me care even less about my vit D level.

I'm just sayin
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1756321_tn?1377771734
Excerpt from :The Easiest Way to Prevent Colds and Flu - Vitamin D Wiki

"The researchers took monthly measurements of the blood levels of vitamin D (25-hydroxyvitamin D) in 195 healthy adults. The measurements started the third week in September and continued for the next four to five months. At the same time, the study participants were asked to report any acute respiratory tract infections. The results were, well, decisive.

Those who had blood levels lower than 38 ng/ml (nanograms per milliliter) had twice as many upper respiratory tract infections.

Among the 18 people in the study who consistently maintained blood levels of vitamin D above 38 ng/ml, 15 were completely free of upper respiratory tract infections — no colds, no flu! (Of those 18 folks, 13 were taking vitamin D supplements. More about that in a minute.)

And when the above-38 group did succumb to cold or flu, their illnesses were shorter. The percentage of days ill with acute respiratory tract infections in the above-38 group was 4.9 times lower than in the below-38 group.

Of the other 180 participants — all of them with blood vitamin D levels consistently below 38 ng/ml — 81 developed colds and flu.

The study's statistical summary: the 38 plus group had a two-fold decrease in the risk of developing a cold or flu."

A good example of why "normal" reference ranges can keep people sick. We already know this with the thyroid labs!  The vitamin D council recommend 50 - 80ng/mL or 125 - 200nmol/L year round.  While i can't find one website with every symptom and disease linked to vitamin D, i did find a good article called "Symptoms & Diseases Associated With Vitamin D Deficiency" by Frank Lipman goes into some symptoms and associated diseases:

"What are the symptoms of vit D deficiency?

There is no clear pattern of symptoms. In fact many people remain asymptomatic despite low levels. But here are the more common symptoms:

Fatigue
General muscle pain and weakness
Muscle cramps
Joint pain
Chronic pain
Weight gain
High blood pressure
Restless sleep
Poor concentration
Headaches
Bladder problems
Constipation or diarrhea

What diseases are associated with Vit D deficiency?

Vitamin D deficiency has been shown to play a role in almost every major disease. This includes:

Osteoporosis and Osteopenia
17 varieties of Cancer (including breast, prostate and colon)
Heart disease
High blood pressure
Obesity
Metabolic Syndrome and Diabetes
Autoimmune diseases
Multiple sclerosis
Rheumatoid arthritis
Osteoarthritis
Bursitis
Gout
Infertility and PMS
Parkinson’s Disease
Depression and Seasonal Affective Disorder
Alzheimer’s Disease
Chronic fatigue syndrome
Fibromyalgia
Chronic Pain
Periodontal disease
Psoriasis"
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681148_tn?1285160820
Red_Star provided a good excerpt with concise enough information.  And, true, you aren't going to feel a huge difference.  The main difference I noticed is just like the article stated about colds.  For the first time in my life I'm not catching every cold going around all the time.  So, no more catching 2-6 colds and flu every year.  I still have my chronic conditions that led me to this site in the first place, but it sure is helpful to not have to fight those viruses on top of everything else.

Honestly, if you take a look at Mercola's articles and the articles from the Vitamin D Council, you will see where the conventional medicine and natural medicine collide and why you really do want to aim for the higher numbers.  Your conventional doctor may stop testing you once you reach their ideal of 30, but you need to remember that their training coincides with what the AMA and the FDA tell them is all that is required.  As I mentioned previously, the latest raise in the RDA for vitamin D was only about bone health and not over all immunity or optimal health.  So, their newest RDA is pitifully too low even for healthy people.  Unless you have a hard time taking the oral vitamin D, and I do know someone with Lyme's who struggles to take what little she does because of how she reacts to it, you really can't afford to not take it at the minimum maintenance dose that you've been taking.

Recently, Mercola said that we should be taking 8,000 iu per day.  Well, at least during the winter when we can't get the natural sun exposure.  He really does always emphasize natural sun exposure.  But, if you're like me and burn way too easily, you will still have to take oral vitamin D even in the summer time.  And, at least at the 5,000 iu maintenance dose.  I saw a naturopath, too, when I had severe vitamin D deficiency.  She concurred that 5,000 iu is really only a maintenance dose.

Knowing that I don't ever want to be severely vitamin D deficient again, and how high natural doctors are all saying that the vitamin D levels should be for optimal health, and how much Mercola is now saying we should all be taking, I know that you can't over dose at a little more than the 5,000 iu plus the little bit in the multi vitamin.  Severe vitamin D deficiency nearly killed me.  I still have no idea what that "virus syndrome" was that month that I was flat on my back for the entire month and in the ER with new symptoms several times that month.  The symptoms changed as fast as 24 hours.  I never got the name of that virus, but it nearly killed me.  So, I know that vitamin D deficiency can kill.

Keeping your levels up will prevent some of the serious illnesses mentioned above.  Once you get most of those serious illnesses, like Parkinson's Disease, there is no turning the clock back.  I mentioned that one, because a friend of mine had the same awful virus syndrome that I had for twice as long as I did and was diagnosed with Parkinson's shortly thereafter.  I do believe her that the virus could have been the trigger, because I had some of the neurological symptoms while I had the virus that had me worried.  Neither one of us was aware of vitamin D deficiency until after this horrible experience with the virus.  Shortly after the virus was over, I was tested.  I was so low my conventional doctor said it was an emergency because it was nearly non-existent.  So, I would say that preventing getting something like Parkinson's in the first place is extremely important.  Once a person has something like Parkinson's, all medical science has at the moment is a cocktail of drugs to manage the symptoms.  I know two people personally with Parkinson's.  So, I'm not talking about the famous actor we can all name who has been fighting Parkinson's for a number of years now, but I know that even he would say that it takes a cocktail of drugs just to manage the symptoms.
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535882_tn?1396580285
my endo told me ideal levels of vitamin d are around 60  but I've read 80-100 are most ideal. alot of symtoms (symptoms) of hypothyroid are similar to vitamin d deficiency.
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798555_tn?1292791151
Since there is a long list of possible symptoms, I was wondering if some are more common in general, and what would go away with supplementation. That's how I've always decided weather I would benefit from something if a lab test is borderline.

Red Blood Cell Magnesium test is a good example, before supping, I was in range although low. When I take Mag Glycinate at night I sleep better,  feel more refreshed in the morning, think better, more at ease, I clearly get some benefits out of it. Coincidentally high quality Magnesium can have that effect on almost everyone though.

With all the talk about vitamin D, I have yet to read from someone here boasting about any symptom relief after supplementing. Maybe someone will chime in? To make things more confusing for us, many of those low D symptoms are also thyroid symptoms.

My test was before I ever supped with D, so I have no idea if my level is higher with that low amount I take. And of course to get the doc to test again after he said its good.....well, we know how that goes, Ha!

It looks like low D sufferers can be in a general sickly feel, colds, viruses a lot, non of which I suffer from (think I'm lucky in that area).

On the "D" symptoms list, the only thing I currently  have (with proper thyroid levels) is muscle fatigue and joint pain, which has improved with any form of additional T3  med. My body is also physically beat up from years of athletics while hypo - possibly injury's that never healed correctly from hypo thyroid levels. Some I feel, and was told, are now possibly permanent.

** So at best, in my case, I could possibly FEEL a difference in muscle and joint pain relief from increasing vitamin D intake even more than what I currently do. Right now I feel no benefit from D at my current intake amount.

I dont know if more over the counter D3 will make a dent in this area (but its cheap to try), as I see a lot of people taking large prescription amounts of D.

As far as the long term associated diseases go, the only one that really knows for sure is father time.

thanks for you info!
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681148_tn?1285160820
I think not getting viruses all the time and improving my health in just that one way is well worth the effort in keeping the vitamin D levels up.
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798555_tn?1292791151
For someone that was very low in D levels, like in your case, there is obviously a lot to gain in supping with D.

It would be interesting to hear from people in the 'gray' area, (low in range) to see if they notice any health improvements from taking vitamin D. You only hear from people that were severely deficient to begin with.

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535882_tn?1396580285
its hard to tell about vitamin d , alot of the symtoms (symptoms) are the same.with hypothyroidism,  but i definitely think it helps with neuropathy, energy levels , muscle  and  immune sytem . it seem like at high levels 70-80 you don't get colds and if you do they're gone in a day. anyway it's an easy thing to boost up take 5 k a day but like the thyroid it takes a few months to get levels to rise.  also reg, otc vitamin d3 is really all that is needed in most cases.  mine was a 10 at one point but took 6 months to get to 56 then 6 months more to rise to 80. i think overall i feel better  at higher level, but that could be also having good thyroid levels.  it's all tied together, i think Kevin
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798555_tn?1292791151
So your vit D-25 was at 10 before supplementing. And you got the level up to 56 from only OTC vitamin D3 - That is quite an astonishing improvement.

What brand D3 do you like?

What IU size to get to 5,000 IU per day?

Most OTC D3's are very low amounts, I suppose you can just take more.

I'll have to pester the endo to re-test D-25, its been awhile.
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535882_tn?1396580285
yea just took 5k a day. just CVS ofc  d3  nothing special.  why it was originally so low. i don't know i suspect that  being hypothyroid pulled the levels down somehow?    they sell 5k in a small pill size. no horse pill it's small.  i should also add that in the summer I'm outside all day. they say that 20 minutes of sunlight in the summer is the equivalent of 20k in supplementation?    but now in winter no sunlight all bundled up .  levels fall.  the endo tested it originally now its on the retest  prescription, im retesting it this week with the thyroid test.   it took a full year to get the levels that high, i remember a few months passed and it was like 30 then at 6 months 56 at a year 80  so it's not quick , bit there is little chance of overdosing either,
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681148_tn?1285160820
A good source for getting a 5k vitamin D3 capsule that is affordable is Swanson Vitamin Company.  Since I use other supplements, too, I usually get my vitamin D from them.  Often they have the 1k and the 2k for super good prices, even a BOGO price, so I will get those if they're on sale and seem like a better deal than the 5k.  The regular shipping price is pretty reasonable and is the same regardless of the amount you spend--unless you spend a certain amount when they're having a free shipping when you spend that amount.  I need to take other supplements on a regular basis to help with the migraine disorder.  I get my magnesium supplements from these guys, too.  Unless I run out and it's the only thing I need to order.  In that case, I go to the discount supplement store.  It's not a deal from the company unless you purchase enough to pay the $4.99 for shipping.  So, I typically make a bulk order 2 or 3 times a year and end up with sufficient vitamin D and magnesium and other supplements by doing it this way.  And, I'm on a fixed income, too.
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Avatar_m_tn
I have hypothyroidism and a vitamin D level of 23. I take Levothyroxine 50mcg daily as well as vitamin D3 5000 IU daily. Between the two issues, it is hard on the body. They both have a lot of the same symptoms and you combine the two it is miserable. I didn't know my vit D levels were low until my thyroid levels were checked, routine blood work. After starting the bit D supplement I began to have issues with the joints in my hands and wrist that I didn't experience before. Has anyone experienced anything like this? I know things usually get worse before they get better but my goodness!
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