Aa
The meds "rant" continues... Natural vs. Synthetic?
Does anyone have experience with synthetic combos T3/T4 AND natural T3/T4 replacements? By this I mean having tried both versions... Like: Cytomel/Synthroid or Cytomel and (insert any other T4 drug here), and Armour too? Of course not all at the same time. I'm looking for a comparison in synthetic drug combos vs. natural thyroid replacement here.
I swear I've tried more thyroid meds than a drug addict at this point (and could probably start my own pharmacy... Shhhh! Don't tell the FDA...:-O), but I've not yet tried Armour. Not sure what could possibly be the difference between the natural and the synthetic versions. Anyone have any experience they'd care to relay?
I just recently went back onto Cytomel in addition to my Levoxyl (dosage which was naturally lowered at the same time). And I am, (as duly noted by the hour of this posting) having trouble sleeping yet again... Even though we cut the amount of Cytomel this time around... I'm sure there's a formula of this combo that won't keep me up when I should be sleeping, but right now I'm not experiencing it.
I seem to trade bloating and joint/muscle pain issues for sleeping issues when I go on combo replacement... If I had to pick, I'd take the sleeping issues I have on the combo. I've have heard that Armour (pig gland) has more T3 than humans actually need. So I'm affraid to try that if I'm having problems sleeping on a reduced amount of Cytomel now. But I'd like to be like Snow White and find the bed (or porridge?...or whatever that nusery rhyme is...) that's JUST RIGHT... for me! I know, I know... Why oh WHY you ask, do I have to be so difficult....?
Is it possible? Or just an unattainable "Fairy Tale"?
I swear I've tried more thyroid meds than a drug addict at this point (and could probably start my own pharmacy... Shhhh! Don't tell the FDA...:-O), but I've not yet tried Armour. Not sure what could possibly be the difference between the natural and the synthetic versions. Anyone have any experience they'd care to relay?
I just recently went back onto Cytomel in addition to my Levoxyl (dosage which was naturally lowered at the same time). And I am, (as duly noted by the hour of this posting) having trouble sleeping yet again... Even though we cut the amount of Cytomel this time around... I'm sure there's a formula of this combo that won't keep me up when I should be sleeping, but right now I'm not experiencing it.
I seem to trade bloating and joint/muscle pain issues for sleeping issues when I go on combo replacement... If I had to pick, I'd take the sleeping issues I have on the combo. I've have heard that Armour (pig gland) has more T3 than humans actually need. So I'm affraid to try that if I'm having problems sleeping on a reduced amount of Cytomel now. But I'd like to be like Snow White and find the bed (or porridge?...or whatever that nusery rhyme is...) that's JUST RIGHT... for me! I know, I know... Why oh WHY you ask, do I have to be so difficult....?
Is it possible? Or just an unattainable "Fairy Tale"?
We're getting off track... my only questions were about T1 & T2.........................................................................................................Again, Buelller, Bueller?
Patients are looking at natural desiccated thyroid hormones- Armour.
Armour is an FDA approved product made from pig glands, meets the stringent guidelines of the US Pharmacopoeia,made by Forest Pharmacuticals and gives patients exactly what their own thyroids give them–T4, T3, T2, T1 and calcitonin. It des prmote a bit more T3 than what humans convert though.
Additionally, patients and certain doctors are NOT dosing by the TSH, Instead, they raise their Armour according to three criteria (and not in any particular order): 1) the elimination of symptoms 2) getting a mid-afternoon temp of 98.6 using a mercury thermometer and 3) getting their free T3 towards the top of the range. Doing the latter WILL suppress your TSH, with not a sign of hyper.
I am at a 0.04 with no hyper symptoms.
On a T4-only medication, some patients have a less-than-optimal free T3.
can't speak for all - and some DO feel better on just Synthroid. I have many friends in town that Synthroid seems to be fine for them. I was not one of those thyroid patients. I needed the T1 T2 T3 in Armour to rid my symptoms. I had a problem with the conversion process and many others do.
To THEFACTS0147
Please -- please -- please. convey your thyroid troubles to us. I have asked numerous times for you to post your woes on your thyroid - but you ignore requests - yet you seem to want to conquer everyone else's problems with THEIR thyroid.
In fact I saw a post you asking a member about thyrogen? Most thyroid members do know this medication. I truey question why you want all this info if you have no thyroid situation. As you stated you are a 1.96 at a TSH? but you also say TSH is useless.
Are you a doctor?
Armour is an FDA approved product made from pig glands, meets the stringent guidelines of the US Pharmacopoeia,made by Forest Pharmacuticals and gives patients exactly what their own thyroids give them–T4, T3, T2, T1 and calcitonin. It des prmote a bit more T3 than what humans convert though.
Additionally, patients and certain doctors are NOT dosing by the TSH, Instead, they raise their Armour according to three criteria (and not in any particular order): 1) the elimination of symptoms 2) getting a mid-afternoon temp of 98.6 using a mercury thermometer and 3) getting their free T3 towards the top of the range. Doing the latter WILL suppress your TSH, with not a sign of hyper.
I am at a 0.04 with no hyper symptoms.
On a T4-only medication, some patients have a less-than-optimal free T3.
can't speak for all - and some DO feel better on just Synthroid. I have many friends in town that Synthroid seems to be fine for them. I was not one of those thyroid patients. I needed the T1 T2 T3 in Armour to rid my symptoms. I had a problem with the conversion process and many others do.
To THEFACTS0147
Please -- please -- please. convey your thyroid troubles to us. I have asked numerous times for you to post your woes on your thyroid - but you ignore requests - yet you seem to want to conquer everyone else's problems with THEIR thyroid.
In fact I saw a post you asking a member about thyrogen? Most thyroid members do know this medication. I truey question why you want all this info if you have no thyroid situation. As you stated you are a 1.96 at a TSH? but you also say TSH is useless.
Are you a doctor?
THEFACTS0147:
Which ones? On Cytomel in addition to my Levothyroxine first time around, My TSH was .8 (.34-5.60) FT3 5.7 (2.3-4.2) and FT4 .94 (.58-1.64). On Synthroid TSH .36, FT3 3.4, FT4 1.37. Then on Levoxyl TSH .42, FT3 3, and FT4 1.2.
My question to all of you on Armour: What exactly do the T1 and T2 in Armour do? If your thyroid makes them normally, why don't they replace them both as well, if your thyroid is removed? Is that why everyone feels so much better on Armour?
Which ones? On Cytomel in addition to my Levothyroxine first time around, My TSH was .8 (.34-5.60) FT3 5.7 (2.3-4.2) and FT4 .94 (.58-1.64). On Synthroid TSH .36, FT3 3.4, FT4 1.37. Then on Levoxyl TSH .42, FT3 3, and FT4 1.2.
My question to all of you on Armour: What exactly do the T1 and T2 in Armour do? If your thyroid makes them normally, why don't they replace them both as well, if your thyroid is removed? Is that why everyone feels so much better on Armour?
How come some doctors issue Cytomel with Synthroid right off the bat and others (like mine) just use Synthroid? If I'm learning correctly, and there is SO much stuff to learn, our bodies take the Synthroid (T4) and convert it to T3 in our muscles, correct? So if your body is having trouble converting it you will undoubtedly have some musle, joint pain, correct? I'm just throwing stuff out here because I'm trying to learn. And I ask because back when I was in hypohe// I went on a walk one day even though I could barely move my legs and I pulled my butt muscle. Yes, my butt. Go ahead and laugh, at this point.....I don't care! So, now that I'm better and back to my regular running schedule I cannot get this butt muslce to heal no matter what I do. Could it be that I'm not converting right?
First - to address the comment above. Most every med has some sort of synthetic in it. If you reach for an Advil or Tylenol for a headache - Guess what? it is a synthetic. So it is pretty hard now a days to totally eliminate synthetics. AND in many THYROID patients anxiety is a huge issue. ALL anti anxiety meds Rx's to us are synthetic.
I wish the poster above would address his thyroid issues so our members could base solid evidence that his conditions warrants his advice??
Pep88 - I agree totally on the T4 replacement therapy alone. Many thyroid suffers complain being on the T4 only replacement causing bloating - weight gain- GI distress and joint pain. (Actually these symptoms are very common for being hypothyroid and not getting your levels in check with what you need)
Adding T3 Cytomel should help - but again - this is another added synthetic med. Some say it is formatted exactly as the human hormone - others had trouble. I believe it is totally up to the way the person is made to determine if any med is suitable.
In my experience. I found total relief switching over from Synthroid to Armour. I had not converted properly with T4 switching into T3 and was sick for at least two years before I finally found a doctor who would "try" Armour.
I found all my symptoms I was experiencing (except joint pain and bloating) left me almost immediately. Then about 6 months into dose increases and supplements the bloating and joint pain is now totally gone too.
I now am trying to balance my weight issue of wanting to work off 20 pounds along with not abrupting my euthyroidism. I certaining do not want to go back to a situation of being symtomatic again.
I think if you would consider Armour therapy - many at the beginning do experience sleep disturbances. I did for a while. I learned to take a few supplements at night is calm the system and again - with time I do sleep better now.
If I remember right you had cancer? If so you know your TSH should remain at the lowest end as possible to maintain remission.
For me a TSH is not an issue - I rely more on my Free T3 being within the levels of keeping my symptoms under control - which my number is at the very top of the reference range. My TSH read now - 0.04 (which could be called Hyper) but I do not have the symptoms as I did when I had Graves with the almost exact level of TSH then.
I wish the poster above would address his thyroid issues so our members could base solid evidence that his conditions warrants his advice??
Pep88 - I agree totally on the T4 replacement therapy alone. Many thyroid suffers complain being on the T4 only replacement causing bloating - weight gain- GI distress and joint pain. (Actually these symptoms are very common for being hypothyroid and not getting your levels in check with what you need)
Adding T3 Cytomel should help - but again - this is another added synthetic med. Some say it is formatted exactly as the human hormone - others had trouble. I believe it is totally up to the way the person is made to determine if any med is suitable.
In my experience. I found total relief switching over from Synthroid to Armour. I had not converted properly with T4 switching into T3 and was sick for at least two years before I finally found a doctor who would "try" Armour.
I found all my symptoms I was experiencing (except joint pain and bloating) left me almost immediately. Then about 6 months into dose increases and supplements the bloating and joint pain is now totally gone too.
I now am trying to balance my weight issue of wanting to work off 20 pounds along with not abrupting my euthyroidism. I certaining do not want to go back to a situation of being symtomatic again.
I think if you would consider Armour therapy - many at the beginning do experience sleep disturbances. I did for a while. I learned to take a few supplements at night is calm the system and again - with time I do sleep better now.
If I remember right you had cancer? If so you know your TSH should remain at the lowest end as possible to maintain remission.
For me a TSH is not an issue - I rely more on my Free T3 being within the levels of keeping my symptoms under control - which my number is at the very top of the reference range. My TSH read now - 0.04 (which could be called Hyper) but I do not have the symptoms as I did when I had Graves with the almost exact level of TSH then.
I don't think I was really "flopping" from one med to the next... I did fairly well on the Levothyroxine and Cytomel combo that I started that right after my RAI in November. I was on it up until 4/8/08 this year. That's 5 months with nothing but dosage adjustments because of TSH - same meds. My only real symptom was sleeplessness. I'd have one night I'd be up really late, then the next night exhausted and had to go to bed early, exhausted. It was just sort of a roller coaster.
I had never been on T4 only, nor had it been discussed exactly why I should stay on combo replacement. Plus my T3 number was pretty high. So I decided to try converting my own T4. And while I was switching up stuff, I thought I'd try the highly touted Synthroid, a non-generic... Everyone recommended (at the time...) that it was "the thing to do"... I slept great! It was probably because I couldn't move...
I was on Synthroid for almost 2 months. But it was only two weeks into it that I noticed something really wasn't right. Very late May, the bloating, debilitating hip joint arthritis and grave worsening of other, what were, "slight" arthritis issues I had previous to TT and RAI, FORCED me to switch to Levoxyl. I have been on Levoxyl ever since. But the bloating and joint issues I had experienced on Synthroid only partially disappeared with the Levoxyl. Was my body missing the T3? It was over two months before I went back to the doc to tell him that he was right and I wanted to add the cytomel back in and hopefully ditch the joint/bloating issues. I had decided that I'd trade pain for sleep anyday...
I'm now 3 weeks on the Levoxyl/Cytomel combo, but it's totally a different ratio than last time. I feel like a human experiment. My excel spread sheet tracking this stuff is all over the place... all meds and numbers... I can see why it would look like I was "flopping", but it wasn't really a "choice" of mine though...
And yes, I was just trying to be funny. I don't really think that there will be a "fairy tale" ending, or that I will feel like a 20 year old again in a ball gown... (I will always hold out hope, though...LOL) But I was really hoping to just feel as good, maybe a little bit better than I did pre-cancer... And sleep at least half as well...
I had never been on T4 only, nor had it been discussed exactly why I should stay on combo replacement. Plus my T3 number was pretty high. So I decided to try converting my own T4. And while I was switching up stuff, I thought I'd try the highly touted Synthroid, a non-generic... Everyone recommended (at the time...) that it was "the thing to do"... I slept great! It was probably because I couldn't move...
I was on Synthroid for almost 2 months. But it was only two weeks into it that I noticed something really wasn't right. Very late May, the bloating, debilitating hip joint arthritis and grave worsening of other, what were, "slight" arthritis issues I had previous to TT and RAI, FORCED me to switch to Levoxyl. I have been on Levoxyl ever since. But the bloating and joint issues I had experienced on Synthroid only partially disappeared with the Levoxyl. Was my body missing the T3? It was over two months before I went back to the doc to tell him that he was right and I wanted to add the cytomel back in and hopefully ditch the joint/bloating issues. I had decided that I'd trade pain for sleep anyday...
I'm now 3 weeks on the Levoxyl/Cytomel combo, but it's totally a different ratio than last time. I feel like a human experiment. My excel spread sheet tracking this stuff is all over the place... all meds and numbers... I can see why it would look like I was "flopping", but it wasn't really a "choice" of mine though...
And yes, I was just trying to be funny. I don't really think that there will be a "fairy tale" ending, or that I will feel like a 20 year old again in a ball gown... (I will always hold out hope, though...LOL) But I was really hoping to just feel as good, maybe a little bit better than I did pre-cancer... And sleep at least half as well...
I never tried Cytomel.
I went right from Synthroid T4 (which as bad for e for a long time) right into Armour.
I will say within 48hrs I felt the "fog" ifted from my head. I could semi function again. Then the more time that went by I resumed more of my old self.
I think the key work here was time. If you were flopping from one med to another and it sounds as through you changed frenquently - then your body never really had a chance on the T3-T4 synthetics to get used to it.
Yes Armour has more built in T3 than human T3 - but it is not an over zellous amount. Eventually you - if you stick to proper thyroid therpay on it - you will adjust to the "differences"
AND if taken in the right way - splitting dosages at the RIGHT times your body will resume a healthy sleep patten. This to say IF all is OK with your other hormones and immune system.
As for the fairy tale - I guess I am more of a realiest. I really never looked at a fair tales as a life. BUT I do see where you are coming from - I think you are saying you just want to be yourself again right?
I went right from Synthroid T4 (which as bad for e for a long time) right into Armour.
I will say within 48hrs I felt the "fog" ifted from my head. I could semi function again. Then the more time that went by I resumed more of my old self.
I think the key work here was time. If you were flopping from one med to another and it sounds as through you changed frenquently - then your body never really had a chance on the T3-T4 synthetics to get used to it.
Yes Armour has more built in T3 than human T3 - but it is not an over zellous amount. Eventually you - if you stick to proper thyroid therpay on it - you will adjust to the "differences"
AND if taken in the right way - splitting dosages at the RIGHT times your body will resume a healthy sleep patten. This to say IF all is OK with your other hormones and immune system.
As for the fairy tale - I guess I am more of a realiest. I really never looked at a fair tales as a life. BUT I do see where you are coming from - I think you are saying you just want to be yourself again right?
Tried cytomel few years ago. Felt hyper on it. Had my TT in March & I am not sleeping either. This is after working a 12 hr day. Tired of being tired. Going to my Dr tommmorow & am hoping levels are off so there is something to fix & maybe I can start to feel better.If not I will talk to her about cytomel again. Just hate to think I will continue to feel this lousy- tired during day & not sleeping @ noc.
Ok guys, I know it's summer and all, and you're all outside BBQ'ing around people's swimming pools, and getting bitten by mesquetos... But really... has no one tried both the synthetic combo of t3 & t4 as well as Armour and lived to tell about it? It's hard to believe that with all the vast amount of experience on this board... seriously?... Seriously?
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