Aa
Have the new laws gone into effect in NY.
I know being on Vicodin for 6 years is wrong, but my pain is chronic and my doc recently dropped me from 4 pills a day 10mg/650 to 2 pills a day I realize he will soon be cutting me off because of new Vicodin laws in New York and a script can no longer be refilled , vicodin can only be taken for no longer than 90 days says the new law, anyway I am struggling on the tapper to a 1/2 a pill every eight hours my pain is so intense Will my body adjust to 1/2 pills every eight hours in time, I want off the Vicodin, it stopped working on my pain a very long time ago. I do want to succeed.
I value your opinion, the doctor is a fraud in 6 years he has never discussed any real treatment like epidural injections for back and neck pain, he had me on the strongest vicodin as well as most of his patients, he is one of the only doctors that handled accidents where I live I was in a car accident 6 years ago. He claimed to be giving me nerve block injections and billed my insurance company $550 , theirs bad doctors in this world and of course time to find a real doctor.
Ya know, DON'T go back to him, and perhaps report him for insurance fraud. Yes, you can be terminated from ANY practice for doctor shopping. BUT, if you discontinue seeing him, and find a better doctor, you will have more options for your pain. If your doctor has done the necessary tests (MRIs, x-rays, whatever) and believes that opioid pain management is your only option for living a normal life, as long as you are honest with that doctor and do not take more than prescribed, I see nothing wrong with that. Certain medications and treatments are available for legitimate medical reasons. I do not know exactly what your injury/illness is, but there is always physical therapy, accupuncture, chiropractors (none of which worked for me) but injections directly into my spine finally did. Also, a BETTER doctor may very well be willing to work with you to taper at a rate that is comfortable for you, if that is what is decided. Doctors should NOT simply make decisions for their patients, unless that patient has had a dirty tox screen, etc, and is suspected of potential abuse of their medication. Of course they have to protect you somehow. If they are afraid you are abusing, and may overdose, hurt yourself while intoxicated, etc, they have a duty to stop the medication. However, if you are legitimately in pain, and a compliant patient, I do not understand why your fraudulent (meaning billing your insurance for services you do not receive) doctor is changing your treatment without your input. Doctors and patients are supposed to work together. Neither one is supposed to make a decision alone, just as the patient is not supposed to act alone, and up their dose without consulting the doctor first, etc.
I agree with everything you just wrote I am one of those people tangled up in this situation, I bet my pain management Dr will be Rx Tramadol for me next as a chronic pain sufferer, I'll have to try out more over the counter stuff, narcotics stop working on pain over time, unless you take massive amounts, I know it has stopped working for me.
What concerns me is that in my research the most abused drug is not vicodin but oxy and morphine. There are more deaths related to overdose on those two vs vicodin. And those two are class II opiates. It will make it harder to have your Dr be your dealer, and for those getting them from dealer/friends prescription. It just seems to me that whenever the government starts a prohibition, it creates more of a demand. Such as the alcohol prohibition. People just go underground and find another way or another substance. My biggest fear is that those addicted will turn to heroin to replace the opiates that are harder to get and probably will go up in price on the streets. Vicodin users will probably start abusing Tramadol. What a mess this will be for addicts.
Many thanks for the heads up, now I know where I stand and what I have to do, and that's get rid of my vicodin addiction, I'm going to try to drop down to one vicodin today as I have an appointment in one week with my doctor, my goal is not to see him any more and be done with the Vicodin.
Sue
Sue
HOT INFO here in N Idaho we have to go into the dr. One dr only and sign a contract. Then you have to go in and pick up scrip. The dr looks up on the computer to make sure you are not dr shopping. The pharms have a computer and they know when, what was last filled. They are offering natural pain management instead of going down the med road. NOW I also have been reading, since they are now finding all kinds of info about the "Disease of Addiction" and they believe that you can inherit the gene from your family, they are talking about doing a swap and testing people. If they have this gene they will be very careful what they give. Now I knew I was playing the game and I was not about to tell any DR that I have used/boozed since I was 14 many many yrs ago. I became addicted and would get it any way possible if the dr would not give me enough or if I ran short. GREAT POST It looks like it was posted a week ago????
vickie
vickie
By the way, a strong motivating factor in my trying to get clean is the changes in law that are afoot, both state and federal.
It has been on the news all last month that the FDA and DEA are very, very concerned about lawful prescription pain killer abuse. (Yes, I am talking about prescriptions that on their face are legal.)
National media has said that the Fed and various states are seeking to severely restrict LAWFUL dispensing of pain meds. The Fed is proposing making it federal law that hydrocodone be classified as a Schedule II substance, which will make dispensing more difficult (e.g., no electronic prescriptions).
I can see the writing on the wall. It is just a matter of time before all doctors get the message, pain meds will not be given out like candy. In other words, doctors will cut you off. Pharmacies will not honor your prescription if they see or suspect abuse. State and federal registries will monitor all pain med prescriptions, to curtail doctor shopping. Central federal and state databases will keep track of YOUR and your doctor's every move in relation to getting Schedule II drugs. Eventually it will be a crime for YOU to possess pain meds in excess of specified limits.
I assume that any day now, or should I say "any refill now," my doctor will cut me off. If I ask for a refill, I will get a message from my doctor saying "NO MORE FOR YOU, ADDICT!"
That scenario has frightened me and is what partially motivated me to go on an immediate self-imposed taper so I could get clean. (I want to get clean on my own terms, not because the doctor cut me off.)
Anyway, have you noticed that quite often someone posts "when I asked for a refill my doctor cut me off." So if you are an abuser like I am, and you are getting your "supply" via a lawful prescription, keep in mind that any day now you could get cut off.
This all gives me the eebee geebees to where I have been able to discipline myself to sticking to my taper plan.
It has been on the news all last month that the FDA and DEA are very, very concerned about lawful prescription pain killer abuse. (Yes, I am talking about prescriptions that on their face are legal.)
National media has said that the Fed and various states are seeking to severely restrict LAWFUL dispensing of pain meds. The Fed is proposing making it federal law that hydrocodone be classified as a Schedule II substance, which will make dispensing more difficult (e.g., no electronic prescriptions).
I can see the writing on the wall. It is just a matter of time before all doctors get the message, pain meds will not be given out like candy. In other words, doctors will cut you off. Pharmacies will not honor your prescription if they see or suspect abuse. State and federal registries will monitor all pain med prescriptions, to curtail doctor shopping. Central federal and state databases will keep track of YOUR and your doctor's every move in relation to getting Schedule II drugs. Eventually it will be a crime for YOU to possess pain meds in excess of specified limits.
I assume that any day now, or should I say "any refill now," my doctor will cut me off. If I ask for a refill, I will get a message from my doctor saying "NO MORE FOR YOU, ADDICT!"
That scenario has frightened me and is what partially motivated me to go on an immediate self-imposed taper so I could get clean. (I want to get clean on my own terms, not because the doctor cut me off.)
Anyway, have you noticed that quite often someone posts "when I asked for a refill my doctor cut me off." So if you are an abuser like I am, and you are getting your "supply" via a lawful prescription, keep in mind that any day now you could get cut off.
This all gives me the eebee geebees to where I have been able to discipline myself to sticking to my taper plan.
Can I post links in here? If you want to know how the politicians are handling pain killer abuse, take a look at this video:
http://blue3.nyc.gov/archive-videos/mayor/2013/01_10_13-opioids.mp4
http://blue3.nyc.gov/archive-videos/mayor/2013/01_10_13-opioids.mp4
Note that the Voluntary Guidelines apply only to NYC. NY state did enact changes in the law, that YesLifeForMe posted.
Some states have similar laws, basically that reclassify narcotic pain killers from Schedule III to Schedule II (the lower the number, the more restrictive the dispensing).
You can think of these schedule changes as mostly dealing with "electronic prescriptions." When moved to Schedule II, under fed or state law, communicating a prescription to the pharmacy via fax or computer is not allowed. The only way you can get an hydrocodone prescription is in-person from the doctor, which must be presented to the pharmacy.
Some states have similar laws, basically that reclassify narcotic pain killers from Schedule III to Schedule II (the lower the number, the more restrictive the dispensing).
You can think of these schedule changes as mostly dealing with "electronic prescriptions." When moved to Schedule II, under fed or state law, communicating a prescription to the pharmacy via fax or computer is not allowed. The only way you can get an hydrocodone prescription is in-person from the doctor, which must be presented to the pharmacy.
I guess the new law wants to inforce not going to more than one doctor for narcotic pain medications, the contract I signed stated that there is treatment available with non narcotic pain medications and that's what I think my doctor means if I go to another doctor for a narcotic pain med I would be terminated as a patient, all this really does make me want to bail out on the Vicodin it's not working for me any longer.
I have been following the PROPOSED changes in FEDERAL law because I knew that eventually some states would enact similar laws or simply have to adhere to fed law.
I will post a thread about the laws, but AFAIK this is what happened in New York.
"January 10, 2013: New York City is seeking to curb abuse of potentially addictive and deadly painkillers such as Oxycontin and Vicodin
with new VOLUNTARY limits on how the drugs should be prescribed.
According to VOLUNTARY GUIDELINES New York City issued today emergency departments at New York’s PUBLIC hospitals: 1) Will now only prescribe a three-day supply of opioid painkillers; 2) Won’t refill lost or stolen prescriptions; and 3) Shouldn’t prescribe long-acting versions of the drugs.
City officials say the guidelines are aimed at reducing abuse and overdoses.From 2004 to 2010 the number of emergency room visits in New York City related to painkillers has tripled to 143 visits for every 100,000 people, the city said."
Note: Even though what looks like a law are voluntary guidelines, for now, I assume that private doctors within NYC and and elsewhere in the state are not going to ignore the voluntary guidelines.
And what better way to get a patient/suspected abuser to cut back by telling you... "the law changed, I cannot prescribe more than..."
I will post a thread about the laws, but AFAIK this is what happened in New York.
"January 10, 2013: New York City is seeking to curb abuse of potentially addictive and deadly painkillers such as Oxycontin and Vicodin
with new VOLUNTARY limits on how the drugs should be prescribed.
According to VOLUNTARY GUIDELINES New York City issued today emergency departments at New York’s PUBLIC hospitals: 1) Will now only prescribe a three-day supply of opioid painkillers; 2) Won’t refill lost or stolen prescriptions; and 3) Shouldn’t prescribe long-acting versions of the drugs.
City officials say the guidelines are aimed at reducing abuse and overdoses.From 2004 to 2010 the number of emergency room visits in New York City related to painkillers has tripled to 143 visits for every 100,000 people, the city said."
Note: Even though what looks like a law are voluntary guidelines, for now, I assume that private doctors within NYC and and elsewhere in the state are not going to ignore the voluntary guidelines.
And what better way to get a patient/suspected abuser to cut back by telling you... "the law changed, I cannot prescribe more than..."
If you don't like your dr. Can you find another? We can fire them you know. I know what contract your talking about. You are right, its so you aren't getting meds from more than one source or pharmacy. Its actually a good thing because it protects you from getting yourself flagged for getting anything anywhere else. Im a little confused though that he said if you want pain management you need to go elsewhere, wants to taper you but has you sign a contract with him which means you can't go to a pain management center. He may just be worried about the new NY laws. You have to have a primary to go to one of those. Hmmm. Try some excederin for your. Pain. You can also take up to 800 mg of advil at a time. Its like the big ones prescribed.
Thank you for sharing that information it was what I thought, your information confirmed it for me. I am having a difficult time tapering the pain I am in is chronic and the Advil is not helping, My doctor was the one who initiated the tapering at my last visit with a contract I had to sign that if I wish to seek pain management from another doctor which was called doctor shopping I would be terminated as a patient I am really bothered by this and hate like hell going back to this doctor because he does not care that I am a chronic pain sufferer, he charges the insurance company for trigger point injections I am not getting. I saw him mostly because of the pain medication he gave me and I don't want to go back to him, I just have to make it without the Vicodin.
Here is what I found on when the NY law went into effect and what was changed:
Effective February 23, 2013 the following changes will be made to the controlled substance schedules in Section 3306 of the New York State Public Health Law. Where applicable, some common brand name pharmaceutical preparations containing the controlled substances are listed in bold:
Schedule II Additions:
Hydrocodone (dihydrocodeinone) (Vicodin®, Lortab®, Tussionex®) This action renders all products containing hydrocodone, including but not limited to hydrocodone in combination with acetaminophen or ibuprofen, Schedule II.
Schedule III Deletions:
Hydrocodone (dihydrocodeinone) (Vicodin®, Lortab®, Tussionex®) This action renders all products containing hydrocodone, including but not limited to hydrocodone in combination with acetaminophen or ibuprofen, Schedule II.
Schedule IV Additions:
Tramadol (Ultram®, Ultracet®, Ryzolt™)
From the way I understood it, to refill you need to get the prescription from your Dr and then take it to the pharmacy. No more calling or faxing it in. So the person in chronic pain has to make a trip to their Dr's office to either pick up their script or see the Dr first, then go sit at the pharmacy and wait until it is ready.
Effective February 23, 2013 the following changes will be made to the controlled substance schedules in Section 3306 of the New York State Public Health Law. Where applicable, some common brand name pharmaceutical preparations containing the controlled substances are listed in bold:
Schedule II Additions:
Hydrocodone (dihydrocodeinone) (Vicodin®, Lortab®, Tussionex®) This action renders all products containing hydrocodone, including but not limited to hydrocodone in combination with acetaminophen or ibuprofen, Schedule II.
Schedule III Deletions:
Hydrocodone (dihydrocodeinone) (Vicodin®, Lortab®, Tussionex®) This action renders all products containing hydrocodone, including but not limited to hydrocodone in combination with acetaminophen or ibuprofen, Schedule II.
Schedule IV Additions:
Tramadol (Ultram®, Ultracet®, Ryzolt™)
From the way I understood it, to refill you need to get the prescription from your Dr and then take it to the pharmacy. No more calling or faxing it in. So the person in chronic pain has to make a trip to their Dr's office to either pick up their script or see the Dr first, then go sit at the pharmacy and wait until it is ready.
This is interesting:
The New York bill would also move tramadol, a weaker opioid drug, into the state's Schedule III. Tramadol is used in Ultram, Rybix and other medicines, and is not currently controlled under state law.
Hannon said he proposed rescheduling tramadol out of fear that addicts might turn to it if hydrocodone becomes harder to get.
The New York bill would also move tramadol, a weaker opioid drug, into the state's Schedule III. Tramadol is used in Ultram, Rybix and other medicines, and is not currently controlled under state law.
Hannon said he proposed rescheduling tramadol out of fear that addicts might turn to it if hydrocodone becomes harder to get.
Thank you I appreciate your reply, I am down to 1 1/2 pills for 8 days now and I'm still trying to reach my goal to 1/2 pill The pain is making it a struggle but all I can do is try and this is my first tapper in 6 years. I have no choice as NY is changing laws regarding vicodin. I
Many thanks for all your replies, I have had enough counting pills I'm going to take it slow but hope to have this all behind me in 6 weeks.
COMMUNITY LEADER
You will experience rebound pain for awhile. It is just your bodies way of messing with us when the pills are reduced or stopped. Many of us have found our pain levels actually got better after we were off the meds for awhile. Hopefully that will be the case for you.
From what I read about the law they can give it to a patient for longer than 90 days but they can only prescribe a 90 day supply and have to have record that the patient has chronic and legitiment pain. I am not trying to encourage you to go back and get some more, just telling you what i read. It actually sounds like a great law that gives dr.s and pharmacy's what they need to prevent people from taking to much. Talk to your dr. about weaning because he will know best. Good luck to you.
Hello Sue and welcome. Your body will adjust very well. Just dropping down 2 pills from 4, I think you'll have some discomfort, like some restlessness in your legs, but it won't last for very long. Just a guess.
This is the first I heard of the new law. I think they're cooking up something here in MI also. I know what you mean by the Vicodin has stopped working on your pain. It quit on me also. I was on 7.5/750. So I just finally gave up on it along with all mind altering drugs and alcohol. I feel much better. It was just complicating my life on top of my original pain. I wake up with a clear head instead of heading for my meds to wake up with.
Having the desire to succeed is half the battle Sue. Getting off completely is very doable for you; if you wish. I would talk to your doctor about what he proposes to do about your pain??
This is the first I heard of the new law. I think they're cooking up something here in MI also. I know what you mean by the Vicodin has stopped working on your pain. It quit on me also. I was on 7.5/750. So I just finally gave up on it along with all mind altering drugs and alcohol. I feel much better. It was just complicating my life on top of my original pain. I wake up with a clear head instead of heading for my meds to wake up with.
Having the desire to succeed is half the battle Sue. Getting off completely is very doable for you; if you wish. I would talk to your doctor about what he proposes to do about your pain??
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