introduction and can I find help and support here

[elginnorco]

Hi, this is my first post.  I am a middle aged professional woman.  I have great relationships with my family and friends, but I am too embarassed or ashamed to let anyone know about my drug use.  I am a relatively heavy drinker and I have been taking norco for about 2 years with a valid perscription.  However, I think the pain I experience now is more from the drug or withdrawl than from my arthritus.  I take about 2-3 10-325 hydro-codone per day mixed with 3-5 drinks, so I maintain a healthy buzz except when I am at work or have to drive.  I have missed work occassionally with hang-overs and gained weight, and my house is messy, otherwise, my life is fairly functional.  Everyday, I think about getting off the painkillers and everyday I can not wait to get home from work and pop a pill with a glass of wine, beer or cocktail.  I just like the high, but I think I would be sharper and healthier if I quit.  Does anyone have or had in the past a similar problem that could offer advise?  It seems that a lot of folks take way more than me, which kind of makes me feel like I don't have a problem, but I know I do because I pretty much use up all my sick leave and I am home today because of a hangover.  Before I started taking the pills, I would drink, but ususally not as much or often, and I was more productive at home and at work.  I want to get back in shape and have more energy and not be high all the time, but on the other hand, I don't want to quit because I love the short-term reward of feeling euphoric.  I would appriciate some personal advise or what ever you all can offer.  Thanks

[clean_in_ks]

So glad you are here and reading......that means "seeds are being planted".  We can only share our experience, strength and hope with you from our own personal perspectives.....but you will notice a "common thread" in everything shared... (if you want to see one, that is)

I came to this site only after I had been thru the nasty of the nasties of w/drawal.  I have also learned that it isn't HOW MUCH... THE QUANTITY), that we consume... (whether it is pills, alcohol, food, cigs, dollars spent gambling, on and on) addictions are many.  IT IS WHAT HAPPENS TO US WHEN WE "ENGAGE" in the behavior we so DON'T want to have A HOLD on us.  
With me, I took pain pills after an accident where I broke my pelvis, sacrum and tailbone.  Before the accident, pills were around, but I just used them occasionally for pain and successfully for a long while.  Then one yr after  the accident, I had 2 discs totally herniate/rupture out of the body cavity where they belonged and pressed on nerves causing horrific pain and causing nerve damage.  Yes, I had/ still have degenerative disc disease, too, but most people our age DO have some kind of degeneration if we have lived at all.  For TWO YRS I had NO INSURANCE & NO DR. WOULD HELP ME!  I simply could not function due to pain.  Your pain receptors at the base of your brain require more, and more and more to get the job done.  (not to mention the euphoric high they once delivered, ha!)  Our bodies are quite smart actually.....Designed that way.

I finally got insurance, surgery and then while still in post-surgery healing mode,  my hubby ends up not being able to walk one morning in Jan 2012 due to an ankle blow out.  So, there was another convenient excuse for me to put off addressing the pills.  Of course, I couldn't expect myself to WAIT ON HIM HAND AND FOOT WITHOUT MY PILLS!!!!  I was sick without them by this time.  Couldn't even function for the 1st hour in the mornin until they got into my system...... (u don't have to get to this point)
  
Well, then the 6 mos passed and still I was having pain even after surgery!
And....my hubby can now walk to the kitchen by himself....doesn't need me to wait on him for every little thing.  I HAD TO LOOK AT MY PILL USAGE!
I was blowing what little $$ we had......I wasn't getting the pain relief anymore ....in trying to relieve my physical pain, I had numbed my emotions, my personality, my organized, "keep it all together" house, bills, cooking, reaching out to family, a sister w/MS I used to take care of and on and on.  My life was unmanageable!  I was miserable......KNEW I needed to get off the pills.  DIDN'T WANT TO!!!  Didn't care much about living anymore either (and I'm a passionate, intense, "full of life", talkative, (how did ya guess??)  laughing kind a gaL!

Why could my hubby take ONE FREAKIN PAIN PILL and not want anymore at all thru his ankle surgery?  thru his back surgery (which was right before my accident)?  I WAS TAKING HIS PAIN PILLS TOO, (and anybody else's I could get).  Cause he's not an addict????  Bingo!!!

Long story short, I "made a decision".  Repeating the same behavior over and over..... and over, expecting different results = INSANITY!!

HOW does it work?  H.O.W. = HONESTY, OPEN-MINDEDNESS AND WILLINGNESS.  Until you get there, "IT" won't work.

The term "hitting your bottom" CAN MEAN, LOOKING DOWN AND NOT WANTING TO GO THERE!!  You get to decide where your bottom is.  We have been blessed with the POWER OF CHOICE!  And I'm soooo glad, cause I chose life; I chose "stupid" Tylenol for pain, and I still am having issues at 97 days clean.  I was really mad at first cause "I couldn't have anything stronger for my pain".  Just my raw emotions all puking out of me (as I re-read this post seems like my emotions are STILL puking out of me! LOL).  I am still in pain, but so are a lot of other people on this site and in the world.  And they make it without pain pills/narcotics/or sedating with alcohol...imagine that?  For real people do that?  That's how I was when I first starting living with the reality.
There are other answers out there if we are WILLING to seek them.  I'm still learnin believe you me!  And I hope I always will.  One of my favorite sayings is:
"I pray that I may learn from the mistakes of others, cause I won't live long enough to make them all myself"!

.........You know in your heart of hearts you are escalating.....but no point taking any action until you are ready to STAY CLEAN EVEN IF YOUR REAREND FALLS OFF!  
Toodles.....and keep checking back with us....we'll be here!
Clean in Kansas

[quitinoxys]

Here Here Dane well said. I started out taking pain meds eight years ago due to a spinal injury and yes I also drank. So as the time passed I was taking more and more pills to get the same feeling. Soon it became nothing more than a maintainace program which by the way included drinking. I also had myself convinced that the reason I was drinkng so much was because of the pills and my addictive brain help convince me. The fact was that I was just chasing the dragon using alcohol to enhance the pills, hmmm does that sound familar. Fortuanatley I realized what I was doing and stopped drinking first before I went c/t off the oxys. Right now yes I do have a beer and wine occassionaly but I am not using it to chase the dragon as there is a huge difference between before and now.

[kyle505]

Thanks Dane - you've said in just a few lines what I've been babbling on about.  I hope it gets through.

[Dane74]

oh girl, i completely understand how you are feeling i was right there with you 6 months ago, and it took allot of tough love and fights and tears to get me to where i am today, (thank you my medhelp friends).  Addiction does not discriminate, addiction does not care if you are successful or a loser, it doesn't care how you feed it whether it be "legal" or from the streets, all the addiction cares about is getting fed its drug.  I know the label of addiction/addict is demening   and society still does not understand the depths of it, but with all that said who cares what its called.  Right now, you are dependent on your pills as you are struggling to cancel that RX, and mixing the alcohol on top of it, thats leading you to call in sick to work are all sign of a problem.  Many of us understand pain, believe me, i only wish i could go and cycle like you do, but i cant, my body won't allow it.  Coming home after a long day from work and taking some Aleve or any OTC should do the trick.  Just try to process all of what we are saying and slowly you will see we are only here to help you as we have all been there before.  So how about canceling that RX?  

[kyle505]

OK...So maybe you're just an abuser - but that is a slippery slope.
And how successful your career or marriage is, or what other activities you are involved in has no bearing on drug and alcohol abuse. I own my own company. I clear over $600,000 a year, live in a house valued at 1.5 million, and have a wife and kids that love me. I buy what I want, go on vacations whenever and wherever I want - and I'm an addict. The addiction got worse and worse, no matter how much money I made, how successful I was. In fact, my standing in the local community helped when I lied about needing pain meds, or not going in to work because I was hungover. Don't be too full of yourself, and don't gauge your level of abuse, or dependency on your career or family life.

[nursegirl6572]

Try not to get hung up on labels.  You've just reached out, you don't have to shout anything to the world from a mountain top right now.

I think what is happening, and it happens a lot...your very first post was very honest and real.  As you started getting replies, you felt a little defensive, for many reasons, and that's okay.  You then started to backpedal a bit, and downplay the info that was in your first post.  That happens here a LOT.  You feel exposed and vulnerable, and judged.  It's not judgement, it's honesty, and it's coming from people who have BEEN in your shoes.  You don't think everyone starts out going through 60 pills in a week do you?  Of course not.

The people here will give you all kinds of support, when you're ready.  I don't think you are really ready to face everything you need to yet.  That's not me putting you down either.  Again, that's okay.

You call yourself dependent.  Yes, that's true, but you are also exhibiting LOTS of signs of addiction, which is characterized by the mental cravings, the frequent consuming thoughts of your drug of choice, abusing your prescription by either taking more than you need, or taking ot for the high.  You've admitted all of that in your first post.  If you aren't comfortable calling yourself an addict at this point, that's fine.  I'm sure that's a real hard thing to do.  Just be honest with yourself.  Even if you DO realize you're an addict, that's not a reflection of you as a person...that's just something you have to deal with.  It's not a character flaw, it doesn't make you less of a person.  Also, lots of people get help without telling everyone they know.  That IS an option for you as well.  At LEAST as a starting place anyway.

The bad thing about not addressing this is it's going to continue to spiral out of control.  You may think it won't, but sadly it will.  You've already been unable to stop even just refilling your meds, and your daily life has suffered (again, from your first post).  You think you're "functional",  you are, a little...but your quality of life has gone done the tubes.

People here are only trying to help you.  I know you feel defensive, you feel judged, you feel like, "Huh!  I'm not like THEM!  They are taking 29 a day and don't have a job!".  You have to understand what "addiction" means,  You fit the bill.  Look up the definition.  That's just factual info.

Everyone here wishes you well, and when you're ready, please come back, and people will help you with any info you need, and all give you all the support you can get.

TRULY and sincerely, best of luck to you.

[ImDONENoMore]

It's not that it sounds crazy, it's just statistically speaking, it is near impossible to do this on your own without real help and support.  But I wish you well no matter what you decide to do.  And check out the thomas recipe and the amino acid protocol.  A lot of great suggestions there to help you with a home detox.

Oh - and you could cancel that refill?  It would be a great start!

[TiredinTempe]

Welcome..I just started on this forum yesterday. The peeps are so nice and helpful. Whatever you do Sweetie please don't mix the pills and booze. Soooo dangerous. I too have arthritis in both my hands, arms & wrists plus degeneration going on. I was taking 2 10/325 daily for pain management. The high is nice but, ..the last two months I have finished off my script early. Then ending up dexoting until I get a refill. Which really blows! Ask lots of questions and read read read all the posts you can. Good luck! Xoxo

[elginnorco]

I never said I did not like the responses.  I have been thankful for the perspective.  I am not trying to be dismissive.  I agree that I would not be here if I did not think I had a problem because the truth is I should not be drinking and taking the pills.  I may not be able to quit the pills and continue drinking, but that is what I want to do and I know it is not impossible because I know friends that have done so successfully. And it is true and I am conflicted because the pills make me feel good.  I have a successful career and marriage.  I am a cyclist, and I take care of my elderly mother abd babysit my grandkids.  I enjoy life emensely.  I do kind of wonder if this is the right forum for me because I am not to the point of self destruction or quitting that seems to be the perspective of a lot of posts.  I think the amount I take is relavent because it will make it easier to quit and I have managed to not up my dose in two years.  Having said all that; I still want to quit and I have not found it easy because I keep refilling my script even after I have told myself it is the last one, so I reached out to this forum to see if I could get some advise on how to quit the pills, not to be labeled a drug addict and alcoholic.  I have a dependency on persciption drugs, and a side effect of the drug is that is affects judgement, which has lead to what I did last night, which was to drink too much for a work night.  I have a high pressure job that requires a clear head, so even a mild hangover is enough to cause me to stay home.  I am thanful for the time you all spend to help others, but I am probably just going to do this on my own, as crazy as you think that sounds.

[kyle505]

The disc degeneration and nerve damage would have been a good thing to include in your initial post. Although abusing meds is never the way to go, at least this explains why you get the meds, and that you have legit pain issues to be concerned about. You really need to talk to your doc if it's so bad that you are just waiting to get home for some relief. And a final point about the drinking, then I'll shut up; the meds may have been the reason that you've graduated from your definition of a social drinker to a heavy drinker (your words), but now that you are at that level, even with no more pills, you may find it very hard to cut back. As with the meds, your body has come to depend on a certain amount of alcohol every day. You may be addicted, and if so, you'll find it hard to stop. Hopefully I'm wrong. Nuf said.

[ImDONENoMore]

Oh boy elgin.. if only we were all actually speaking to each other in a room you might hear all of this differently.  You started out saying this was a problem and yet already you're stepping back and defending your behavior.  And resisting the help so many here are trying to offer to you.

But we'll be here throughout your journey - that's what this forum does and it is a no judgement zone.  It really is.  It's only when we stop talking, and start LISTENING, do we begin to learn.  I know exactly where you are at because that was ME a little over 2 years ago.  So you can't expect to change your thinking overnight.  Just give yourself some time to sit with all of this now.  You didn't become an addict overnight - none of us did.  And none of us got out of our addiction overnight either.  It's a process, and a long road.  One well worth traveled, but long nonetheless.

And a humbling road to say the least.  :)

[elginnorco]

I still think the pills are the problem and I wonder if anyone else was a moderate drinker until they were perscribed pain killers and then increased their drinking.  I do not deny that I need to reduce my alcohol intake and quit the pills.  I can honestly say that I can be a moderate drinker when I am not taking pills.  I also want to do this privately and if that fails maybe I will tell others, but I would rather not blow it out of proportion and worry folks or compromise my reputation.  The reality is too that I have disc degeneration that has caused nerve damage, but physical therapy and pain medication have kept me from having surgery.  The unfortunate thing is the pills make me content to sit aroud and drink more often than I otherwise would.  I am not sure how I will manage the back pain without the pills, but right now I do not know if the pain is from pill with drawl or my back as so many complain of pain from withdrawl.  How do I distinguish from the two.  Part of the reason, I can't wait to come home and take the pills is because by the end of the day, my back and neck are hurting and I want the relief. For better or worse, the pills provide more than just pain relief; they make me content when I am typically ambiteous and full of desire and plans, which made the back problems frustrating.  The pills eased my frustration and pain, but I also feel like they make me lazy and foggy and inclined to over indulge in alcohol.  

[kyle505]

OK...I wish you luck, but I truly feel that the addiction is in control, and you are just BSing yourself. So now you are going to wait until your script is gone? Why? More lost time at work, more damage to your body, more exposure to the stupid things we do when we're using? Really? By the time most of us arrive on this forum we've had things happen in our lives, or we've finally faced facts about our problems. You've been confronted with some hard observations about yourself, and now you're backpedaling. And I don't have to know you because I know addiction. You let a lot of things slip about and don't like some of the responses. You have a long road ahead if you can't learn from others who've been there, done that.

[vicki595]

Oh boy, Elgin.   I couldn't believe my eyes when I read your last missive...

Good luck to you. I think you're beyond any of MY words...I'm just hoping that you don't smoke , as well. I always worry about that old "passing out with a lit cigarette" scenario...

I just read a comment of yours on another post. You said you were KIND OF thinking about quitting the pills...and that you don't want to tell your doctor. You may not be ready to stop and I know the alcohol has a lot to do with that, even if you don't.   We'll be here when you're ready and by the way, the number of pills someone takes per day is not the measurement of a problem.

[nursegirl6572]

Only YOU know if drinking is a problem for you.  You may think that you have a bunch of addicts preaching to you...I'm actually NOT an addict.  

You may be right that the pills have altered the way in which you drink, but BECAUSE of that, you've changed the rules with your drinking.  Now that you DO have an addiction problem, it's not going to be easy to return to the way things were before.  You're always going to relate the two together in your mind.  When you drink, you'll think of pills.  It's just not healthy for someone trying to recover.

That would be like me, having my morning cigarette, without a cup of coffee in my hand, or vice versa.  The two are one for me.  In the dead of winter, if I have forgotten my coffee inside while smoking, Ill go to a lot of trouble to take off my boots and coat, and put everything back ON, just to go in and retrieve that coffee.  It's the same mindset.

It may take you a while to admit we have a point, and that's okay.  Like dane said, please understand no one is judging you...like I said...just being very honest with you.  Some things are hard to hear.

[elginnorco]

Otoh, Thanks , are you still taking pills or were you able to quit them too?  

[Dane74]

WOW,  Nursegirl, just summed it all up.  You remind me of me when i first came to this site like 2 years ago,  i was reaching out but yet i was rationalizing and minimizing my pill use.   Please see that we are all here to help you and not judge you, we just want you to see what we are seeing, and that is that you do have a problem with the pills and alcohol. Please reread what we all wrote and don't take it as a negative take it as we all care and have personal experience with all of this.  You need to find out why you want to get high, we all get high for some reason or another and once we get to the root of "why" we can then focus on recovery.  

[elginnorco]

I think you are right and I am going to taper off and quit when my script is gone, and then I know drinking will not be a problem because it has not been in the past 30 years of drinking, so I disagree that I am a budding alcoholic, and I can honestly say that I have no desire to quit drinking because it has never been a problem, and I have about 200 bottles of good wine that I plan on enjoying with my husband, friends and family.  Kyle505, congrats on your 27 years, but I do not think you know or understand me as well as you do youself.   I think the pills do alter my judgement, and I drink more and more often than I ever did before they were perscribed.  I have to say the feeling of the pills with the alcohol is way more intense than either alone.  Thanks again for all the posts.  It is good to get some input and different perspectives.  And I do not want to let this get out of control any more than it is.

[kyle505]

And a P.S. - I was focusing on your denial of your addictions. I re read your next post, and you asked about getting rid of your desire to take meds. And you casually mention something about calling and canceling your refill.
Man. You don't get rid of your desire; the addiction has it's hooks in you. You have to detox, and want to get clean. And the very first step is CUT ALL SOURCES. if you have pills available, you will relapse. If you keep your secret, you will relapse behind it. If you don't get aftercare, AA, NA, whatever, you will relapse.  It can be done. It's a long haul.

[nursegirl6572]

Just wanted to repost some of your OWN words.  Sometimes just seeing what YOU wrote makes a difference.  I think you absolutely KNOW you have a drinking problem, but if you admit it, you'll be forced to have to do something about it, and, you enjoy the feeling.  That's nothing to be ashamed of, it's actually refreshingly honest.  

Same with the pills.  You are rationalizing...saying things like you don't take as much as other people, you make your script last almost the whole 60 days, like you said, that's denial talking.  The fact that you're taking them EVERY day for 2 years, and to get high rather than for real pain most of the time, means you are addicted.  

Now, to repost your words about the drinking.  I know in some of these quotes you were also talking about the pills, but you get the idea:

*I am a relatively heavy drinker

*so I maintain a healthy buzz except when I am at work or have to drive

*I have missed work occassionally with hang-overs and gained weight, and my house is messy

*everyday I can not wait to get home from work and pop a pill with a glass of wine, beer or cocktail.

*I just like the high, but I think I would be sharper and healthier if I quit.

*which kind of makes me feel like I don't have a problem, but I know I do because I pretty much use up all my sick leave and I am home today because of a hangover.

*Before I started taking the pills, I would drink, but ususally not as much or often, and I was more productive at home and at work.

* I don't want to quit because I love the short-term reward of feeling euphoric.  

*(Here, you contradict all of the above statements, blaming everything on the pills, so you can hang on to your drinking):  I really have no desire to quit drinking alcohol, but I could cut back, and I know I will once I get off the pills.  I have been a responsible social drinker my whole life and just want to get back to that and off the pills.

To comment on that last quote, even if you WERE at one point a responsible social drinker, you aren't anymore.  At some point, that changed for you.

The GREAT news is, you're ready to make changes.  Even if you're scared, and don't really WANT to because you enjoy the high, you have identified that there is a problem.  The above words don't lie.  

You pretty much spend MOST of your time intoxicated/high.  You're missing work, you've let your house go, and your appearance to a point.  Sounds like your thoughts are revolving around that drink and those pills.  Not to mention, medically, you are putting yourself in danger of health problems, including liver disease.

You say on one hand how functional you are, yet on the other, explain how dysfunctional you've become.  You have that struggle going on, because I'm sure it IS hard to admit you've gotten to this point.

A concurrent addiction is a tricky thing, but they BOTH need addressed.  You can't be successful quitting one if you're still abusing the other.  

You were very brave to come here, be brutally honest, and reach out.  That's the first step.  Take the second by reaching out to your doctor, and tell him you have a problem and need help.

Your own words are more telling that anything we could say to you.  I wish you the very best.  Congrats on STARTING to be honest with yourself.  You just need to push through the rest of that denial so you can do what you need to to get yourself back.

This forum will be an invaluable source of support, compassion and info.  Also be prepared for a healthy dose of tough love and brutal honesty when it is needed.  These people who have been there will not let you fool yourself without calling you on it.  At some point, you'll be glad they did.

[ImDONENoMore]

Great advice dana - it's true elgin.  Listen to everyone because they know what they're talking about.  You are on a HUGE slippery slope with that mindset about your drinking.  You obviously want help because you came here.  You can do this.

[Ben727]

I just wanted to say that your story reminds me of what I heard about Betty Ford once. As the First Lady, she never drank to excess, but she said she knew she had a problem due to her constant preoccupation with alchohol. She went on to found the well known clinic as part of her journey. Addiction is highly personal, and is different for everyone. My opinion is that someone like you would really benefit from professional help. You would be amazed at what talking about your situation with someone qualified can do for you! If you can't afford professional help, AA is full of amazing people who will not judge you and can give you great advice. Having a "problem" does not always mean ruining your life, it is up to you to decide what qualifies.

[Dane74]

Please be careful, because right now you seem to have it under control, believe me, you will quickly lose control and before you know it, that pill bottle will be done in 30 days not 60.  I understand that "high" and yes its great while it lasts, but it soon turns on you, and all the control you had is gone and fast. In my opinion i would not get that refill and take charge now while you still have that control:-)

[kyle505]

I'm a recovering alcoholic/pill popper. Long story short - I stopped drinking 27 years ago. 12 years in to my "sobriety" I found pain pills, and off I went. Next Wednesday I'll have 9 months clean.
This is what I see in your post - you look forward to coming home to drink; you've missed work, used up your sick leave and are at home with a hangover. You aren't' a social drinker - you're a budding alcoholic. Plus, you are abusing meds. No matter if the meds lead to drinking or drinking leads to meds, you are an addict.
I agree with the above; you need to address one problem at a time, but you do need to realize that you have two problems. I speak from experience - the booze will mess you up as bad as meds. And the meds will mess up up as bad as booze. So, first step, admit and accept your addictions. After that, you can begin recovery.