please help - 4 days clean and maybe abut to blow it

[codean]

I've posted here a few times and have a fuller biog in my tracker. long story short, long term codeine abuser - up to 1800 mg per day. ouch. I  tapered down pretty quickly then went ct . I'm doing ok, bad stomach, muscle ache etc. etc. but i can bear thst. what i can' bear is no sleep. in the last 72hours (not including today,i've had maybe 2-3hrs total. I'vetried using diazepam tosleepbut even on a high dose - 70-80mg it makes no difference. I'm finding myself thinking thst if Iuse one more timejust to get some sleep, that'll help me with the next few days. I'm rationalising it on the basis that it would be no more thana prescription dose so it's no big deal. I know that's probably wrong, and I can almost guess what people will say if they read this, but what's worse, no sleep for 4 days, swallowing enough Valium to drop a horse or a bit of codeine? Say, 150mg? Would that even help? I think it would.

[codean]

I should also have said thanks for taking the time to write to me, it all helps.

[codean]

wow, I feel Ihave a lot of friends tonight - which is great. Previous attempts to post haven;t been very successful. You're right, I don't like your truth. Like you, I need a good 7-8 hours minimum to function. Day 1 and 2 I got no sleep at all. Day 3 got about 2hours of very poor sleep. Last night I got 5-6 as a result of a bunch of valium and a bit of codeine - as  a result I feel more human. Rubbish but bettter, hell, I even managed to eat a bit today. It scares me witless that you're 20 days clean and still only getting 3 hours sleep. I;m scared that addiction will follow me all my days. It's been with me for 15 years already. Until 2-3 years ago it was always alcohol but I stumbled on codeine and well, you know the rest. People keep talkingabout melatonin. How much do you take?
I think if I went to my doctor I'd just be told to go to the local drug/alcohol centre who would offer me inpatient treatment in about 6 months (waiting list) and wouldn't prescribe me anything at all. The treatment centre isnot an option: a) I'm doing this now, not 6 month's time and b) my wife would kick me out. I'll look up seroquel and see what I find out but if you're only getting 3 hrs...

You're not so much older than me, I'm closing 40 - can I respectfully suggest that your comments about your appearance might a) be wrong and b) probably aren't important. The idea that your sould is rotting away is a much deeper insight.

As an aside, do you or anybody else reading this know if there's like a chatroom for this kind of thing? I'm really sincerely grateful for the time you guys are taking to write to somebody you don't even know and this thread is the busiest I've ever had but the immediacy of a chatroom might be nice,,, I've got so much to say and it's difficult sometimes to do it here.

[bigalspal]

Hi,
I know you probally don't want to hear this, but I feel I must tell you the bitter truth.
At least it's MY bitter truth.
I have WD'd from opiates (including your's) so many times I've lost track.
Insomnia is just the hard cold truth for most of us WD'ing from opiates.
MINE has been BRUTAL!
20 days clean from Fentanyl.
But..I had insomnia with ANY opiate I WD from.
I have had 3 hrs sleep last night. And the night before, ect. I have always been one of those people who cannot fuction without a solid 7 to 8 hrs sleep. NOT 6, 7 or 8 hrs of sleep. So I know what you are going through.
But this endless cycle of relaspe will only cause you to destroy big chunks of your life
like I have. Either you do it now, or you'll end up like me--51 yrs old & doing it all over again. THIS time, because of my age, it's seems like my body has said "you expect me to just heal quickly!?"  It's not. But I haven't given in.
It will almost drive you mad--no sleep!
But if I relaspe, I'd just have to put off the enevitable (My spelling ***** due to the foggy head). How old will I be next time? 65? I'd probally be dead by then. The opiates starting to eat me from the inside out. Really. That's what it felt like this last binge.
I'm a woman, & I am vain. My looks have really suffered. Lost 19 pounds. Not good on me, I'm skinny anyway & short.
I know that sounds really shallow, but I hate what I see in the mirror!
Plus, my soul was finally rotting away.
I know all this sounds harsh, but don't fool yourself into thinking that this addiction won't follow you into old age. It will.
Oh, the Valium doesn't help me either. I never took as much as you, but what normally works for me, now does not.
I'm taking Melatonin. It's sorta working, so I think I'm gonna push through as best I can.
My Dr also precribed Seroquel. It's used off lable at low doses for insomnia, but it's a scary drug if you are not bi-polar. That's what it's really used for. I took it & I slept, but I'm very afraid of using too much, so I will only use it when I'm on the edge of insanity from the insomnia. Plus, don't want ANOTHER damn drug to have to get off of.
Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is-you just have to do it.
There are no free rides, my friend.
Good luck to you!
Bigalspal

[codean]

according to the source of all knowledge wikipedia, benadryl is different in the UK to US:

"In the U.S. Benadryl products contain the 1st generation antihistamine Diphenhydramine.....may also produce anticholinergic effects, antiemetic effects, and SIGNIFICANT SEDATIVE side effects."
"In the United Kingdom Benadryl products contain either the 2nd generation antihistamine acrivastine (sold as Benadryl Allergy Relief) or the antihistamine cetirizine"
Bummer. I know that valium isn't really a sleeper but it's the closest I have. The only OTC thing I know in th UK is something called Nytol - I've just looked and bingo, there's the Diphenhydramine Hydrochloride, Maybe that's what I get tomorrow...

Thanks for the info on the liver function factor.Thankfully, I was totally aware of that and it wasn't the way I got my codeine. It was all pure codeine pills or mmost commonly, codeine linctus. When absolutely necessary, I would use the pills with the other ingredients but was aware how to exract the codeine. Amazing what you learn when a drug becomes so important to you.

[codean]

funnily enough I was just trying to look up an NA phone number, with a view to having a chat but the site seems to be down. Plus I have the issue that I can't tell my wife that I'm going to an NA meeting, I suppose I could say I was going to an AA meeting because I felt the need -  although that would worry her.

To be perfectly honest though, I never really got into the whole AA thing - my way or the highway type thing. I don't want to knock AA (and by association NA) because I know for some people it works. However, what I felt was that people were turning their lives into an AA centred life and I see no freedom that way. Also, there's a very interesting article in the health pages about AA - worth a read. I think there's some great principles in there, but to be honest, I'm not sure it's for me. Maybe I should try again but I'm really not convinced. Thanks for the encouragement - appreciated. I'm pretty hopeful that my little dabble last night has had no particularly bad effects. I've had no more today and it hasn't been hard at all.The only problem with that is that it is giving me a (probably) false sense of security that I can do it again tonight. Resist resist resist! If another 4.5 hours pass and I get to 5 in the morning again, it's going to be tough...

Thanks for taking the time to write

[122 Tactical Fighter Group]

One primary concern would be that most codeine based meds also partner up with acetaminophen/paracetamol. That would be the largest concern with hepatoxicity.  Especially in the UK/Canada/Australia where people try and sustain a codeine habit with 10mg pills that also have a gob of one of the two other analgesics - the codeine may be extracted, but most do not know how to do this. Valium isnt really a sleeping pill either...I dont know whats available in the Uk - but trazadone is an effective sleep aid that works and is safe and non addictive. If you are feeling better today - maybe you should keep lowering your dose as you say........just never quit looking for the answers until you are satisfied that you have found them. And maybe codeine isnt as harmful to the liver as other narcotics....but everything that goes in your system is filtered through your liver and makes it work harder....so even a totally innocuos substance can have some serious effects on liver functions. Glad that you decided to quit the codeine - - just never stop quiting..........and best of luck to you.......