Aa
Prednisone and hearing
You may recall that I posted twice about my cat Samantha. Her case is very unusual and so perhaps continuing to share our journey can help others in the future. If you recall, almost seven weeks ago she had her ears flushed and came home completely deaf and with severe vestibular syndrome. It turned out she has two ruptured ear drums along with major blockage in what I think is called the Tympanic Bullea - basically it's one of the two sacs in the middle ear. All this from an ear flush (what the hell did they do to her? I'm still wondering this after seven weeks).
So the specialist that we saw put her on antibiotic to hopefully get rid of the blockage and prednisone to reduce the inflammation. It's been almost a month on both meds and she wants to continue for two more weeks. The vestibular syndrome has improved about 90% but Sami still can't jump as high as she used to and will not balance her body correctly if she tries to jump onto the kitchen table, for example. She has simply stopped trying to do the things she used to do, but she has regained most of her abilities.
However she is still deaf. Here's the strange part and the reason I am posting. If this makes sense to anyone, please share your thoughts, but even the vet neurologist was puzzled. About two weeks ago Sami started to show signs of hearing. If there was a loud noise behind her she would lift her head as if she heard something but she would not know where the noise came from. She couldn't locate sound and her ears still don't move toward sound at all, but even noticing a slight response to sound was a big improvement. I was hopeful this meant there was a possibility of her hearing returning if the blockage cleared (I figured it was slowly clearing). We decided to cut back on the prednisone and we started weaning her off last week and since then she has reverted back to complete deafness. Any ideas why the prednisone would be helping with hearing and why fading it would cause to revert back to 100% hearing loss? To think there is still inflammation seven weeks later seems unlikely. And the ear drums should have healed in this timeframe as well.
I know this is a complicated medical situation and maybe not the best place to post this, but I noticed there are some experienced cat people on this site and maybe someone has had a similar experience?
Sorry for the extra-long post!
Sami's mom
So the specialist that we saw put her on antibiotic to hopefully get rid of the blockage and prednisone to reduce the inflammation. It's been almost a month on both meds and she wants to continue for two more weeks. The vestibular syndrome has improved about 90% but Sami still can't jump as high as she used to and will not balance her body correctly if she tries to jump onto the kitchen table, for example. She has simply stopped trying to do the things she used to do, but she has regained most of her abilities.
However she is still deaf. Here's the strange part and the reason I am posting. If this makes sense to anyone, please share your thoughts, but even the vet neurologist was puzzled. About two weeks ago Sami started to show signs of hearing. If there was a loud noise behind her she would lift her head as if she heard something but she would not know where the noise came from. She couldn't locate sound and her ears still don't move toward sound at all, but even noticing a slight response to sound was a big improvement. I was hopeful this meant there was a possibility of her hearing returning if the blockage cleared (I figured it was slowly clearing). We decided to cut back on the prednisone and we started weaning her off last week and since then she has reverted back to complete deafness. Any ideas why the prednisone would be helping with hearing and why fading it would cause to revert back to 100% hearing loss? To think there is still inflammation seven weeks later seems unlikely. And the ear drums should have healed in this timeframe as well.
I know this is a complicated medical situation and maybe not the best place to post this, but I noticed there are some experienced cat people on this site and maybe someone has had a similar experience?
Sorry for the extra-long post!
Sami's mom
Just keep us posted if you would. Sani's story is one many can learn from.
Good luck to you and your beautiful Sami
CML
Good luck to you and your beautiful Sami
CML
Hi CML,
Thanks for checking in. It's almost 4 months since the incident and we're still working through it. Sami started to hear a little while on prednisone (not well, but at least she started to know when I came home, etc.) and she started to act more like her old self, but once we faded the meds, she reverted back, so we stopped fading the meds and she has maintained the good results, but now it's time to fade again (she can't stay on prednisone much longer). She was on 10mg a day is down to 3/4 of a 5 mg pill. She's maintained the hearing but now the last two days when I faded to half a pill, she is lethargic and not well. I am going to go back up to 3/4 and fade slower, but it's nearly impossible to get her off these meds since the fade-out always results in her seeming lethargic and ill, so I don't know if we should just push through it and get it out of her system or just really extend the fade-out process. I can't wait to be have her off meds. But the big question is whether or not she will maintain the partial hearing once she is off the meds. Since fading she has started shaking her head again, so clearly the inflammation is returning and there is still an issue happening - the meds didn't cure it, just helped while on them, but what happens once off them is yet to be determined. Can't believe we are still unsure of an outcome after almost 4 months, but this is a slow, complicated process.
Hopefully a few more weeks and we can finally be done with the prednisone. It's so hard to fade these meds.
Thanks again!
Thanks for checking in. It's almost 4 months since the incident and we're still working through it. Sami started to hear a little while on prednisone (not well, but at least she started to know when I came home, etc.) and she started to act more like her old self, but once we faded the meds, she reverted back, so we stopped fading the meds and she has maintained the good results, but now it's time to fade again (she can't stay on prednisone much longer). She was on 10mg a day is down to 3/4 of a 5 mg pill. She's maintained the hearing but now the last two days when I faded to half a pill, she is lethargic and not well. I am going to go back up to 3/4 and fade slower, but it's nearly impossible to get her off these meds since the fade-out always results in her seeming lethargic and ill, so I don't know if we should just push through it and get it out of her system or just really extend the fade-out process. I can't wait to be have her off meds. But the big question is whether or not she will maintain the partial hearing once she is off the meds. Since fading she has started shaking her head again, so clearly the inflammation is returning and there is still an issue happening - the meds didn't cure it, just helped while on them, but what happens once off them is yet to be determined. Can't believe we are still unsure of an outcome after almost 4 months, but this is a slow, complicated process.
Hopefully a few more weeks and we can finally be done with the prednisone. It's so hard to fade these meds.
Thanks again!
Hi Mom,
How is Sami doing with her hearing ?
Please give us an update --Sami is important to us too. She is now one of MedHelps kits. They are very special.
Thanks,
Cml
How is Sami doing with her hearing ?
Please give us an update --Sami is important to us too. She is now one of MedHelps kits. They are very special.
Thanks,
Cml
Hi Mom,
Thank you so much for caring and loving Sam. She is important to us and prayers are with you and Sami to recover fully.
Perhaps you should take Sami to a Veterinary Med School in your area. They are up to date on the latest advancements in care and may not charge you, since they learn from each case.
Thanks for keeping us posted.
May you and Sami have a wonderful Holiday Season and a much better 2015.
P.S. You are not alone in being your baby's advocate, sometimes the rest of the world just doesn,t GET IT!
Thank you so much for caring and loving Sam. She is important to us and prayers are with you and Sami to recover fully.
Perhaps you should take Sami to a Veterinary Med School in your area. They are up to date on the latest advancements in care and may not charge you, since they learn from each case.
Thanks for keeping us posted.
May you and Sami have a wonderful Holiday Season and a much better 2015.
P.S. You are not alone in being your baby's advocate, sometimes the rest of the world just doesn,t GET IT!
Thank you everyone for checking in and caring about Sami, and thank you opus88 for the helpful link.
Sami is still the same and we haven't been back to the vet yet so not much to update at this point. It's been 8 weeks since the ear flush (8 weeks today, as a matter of fact), and about 5 weeks on the antibiotic and prednisone. The vet neurologist prescribed two more weeks of both meds and then I will bring Sami next week to see if the ballae is clear. The MRI showed one of the ballae was completely impacted but the swab culture of the material in the middle ear wasn't bacterial so the vet was confused by this but gave antibiotic anyway. The vestibular issues are nearly entirely gone, and I would say she is 90% recovered with some lingering inability to jump high and gauge her position, but she gets around just fine and plays. I don't mind that she can no longer hop on the kitchen table or the bathroom counter (it has its benefits) but it just reveals that there is still a problem since she could do these behaviors with ease before. Now she doesn't even try. She wants to and she looks up as if she's thinking about it, but then she just walks away because she can't quite figure out the physics of it or land appropriately and she falls.
The main concern is the deafness. As I stated she seemed to show some hopeful signs such as lifting her head when I made a noise, though unable to determine location, but this stopped when we faded the prednisone. We went back to daily doses about a week ago and each day it seemed there was no change until finally yesterday it seemed like she may be getting a bit more responsive. It's still very limited and the hearing is still non-functional, but the fact that something gets through has renewed my hope once more. But that must mean there is still inflammation after all this time, and the vet said that is unusual, but everything seems to suggest there is still inflammation (and the pred brings that down which allows for a bit of sound to get through). She wants to do another MRI to see what kind of changes have occurred but I really can't afford another (they are almost 3 grand). I am hoping x-rays will be good enough, though Sami needs to be under for those too so the cost is still quite high. We will do it and hope for some good news. I will post more info after we go to the vet and learn more.
Opus88, to answer your question, I am not sure if the nerves were killed. This has been my greatest fear since I first read that certain solutions used in ear cleaning can penetrate the middle ear and kill of the nerves necessary to conduct sound. This happens, of course, when an ear flush is done to an animal with ruptured ear drums and it turns out Sami has two ruptured ear drums (and I believe they got ruptured during the flush). It seems that most of the toxic solutions are no longer used but I read that even some milder ones can do this. I asked the original vet what chemicals were used and her answer was "I didn't flush her ears, the tech assistant did" which I thought was a defensive and useless answer. The reason I am so excited that Sami shows a level of responsiveness (even if it is just muddled sound getting in) is because it would mean, I think, that the nerves are not dead, but more likely just something blocking the sound. I've gone over this a thousand times in my mind and I hope to have some answers soon, but I suspect there may be no clear answer at the end, but as long as there is progress, that will have to be enough.
Once we are done with treatment I will be filing with small claims court for the initial vet to pay, but who knows how that will turn out. I am planning my case and documenting everything.
I'm grateful to this wonderful online community of cat lovers who genuinely care because not everyone in "real life" understands. It's nice to know Sami's life matters because I started to get angry that she was abandoned (I got her from a rescue who saved her from death row), then the original vet hurt her and essentially didn't care or follow-up and in my opinion abandoned her, then I couldn't get the neurologist to call back and I was angry for Sami that her life can be discarded and that animals are not given the compassion they deserve. But I've learned that we need to be our own advocates in health care, for ourselves and for our pets. No one else will really put in the effort. It's a sad fact. So I am Sami's advocate and I will not abandon her.
Sami is still the same and we haven't been back to the vet yet so not much to update at this point. It's been 8 weeks since the ear flush (8 weeks today, as a matter of fact), and about 5 weeks on the antibiotic and prednisone. The vet neurologist prescribed two more weeks of both meds and then I will bring Sami next week to see if the ballae is clear. The MRI showed one of the ballae was completely impacted but the swab culture of the material in the middle ear wasn't bacterial so the vet was confused by this but gave antibiotic anyway. The vestibular issues are nearly entirely gone, and I would say she is 90% recovered with some lingering inability to jump high and gauge her position, but she gets around just fine and plays. I don't mind that she can no longer hop on the kitchen table or the bathroom counter (it has its benefits) but it just reveals that there is still a problem since she could do these behaviors with ease before. Now she doesn't even try. She wants to and she looks up as if she's thinking about it, but then she just walks away because she can't quite figure out the physics of it or land appropriately and she falls.
The main concern is the deafness. As I stated she seemed to show some hopeful signs such as lifting her head when I made a noise, though unable to determine location, but this stopped when we faded the prednisone. We went back to daily doses about a week ago and each day it seemed there was no change until finally yesterday it seemed like she may be getting a bit more responsive. It's still very limited and the hearing is still non-functional, but the fact that something gets through has renewed my hope once more. But that must mean there is still inflammation after all this time, and the vet said that is unusual, but everything seems to suggest there is still inflammation (and the pred brings that down which allows for a bit of sound to get through). She wants to do another MRI to see what kind of changes have occurred but I really can't afford another (they are almost 3 grand). I am hoping x-rays will be good enough, though Sami needs to be under for those too so the cost is still quite high. We will do it and hope for some good news. I will post more info after we go to the vet and learn more.
Opus88, to answer your question, I am not sure if the nerves were killed. This has been my greatest fear since I first read that certain solutions used in ear cleaning can penetrate the middle ear and kill of the nerves necessary to conduct sound. This happens, of course, when an ear flush is done to an animal with ruptured ear drums and it turns out Sami has two ruptured ear drums (and I believe they got ruptured during the flush). It seems that most of the toxic solutions are no longer used but I read that even some milder ones can do this. I asked the original vet what chemicals were used and her answer was "I didn't flush her ears, the tech assistant did" which I thought was a defensive and useless answer. The reason I am so excited that Sami shows a level of responsiveness (even if it is just muddled sound getting in) is because it would mean, I think, that the nerves are not dead, but more likely just something blocking the sound. I've gone over this a thousand times in my mind and I hope to have some answers soon, but I suspect there may be no clear answer at the end, but as long as there is progress, that will have to be enough.
Once we are done with treatment I will be filing with small claims court for the initial vet to pay, but who knows how that will turn out. I am planning my case and documenting everything.
I'm grateful to this wonderful online community of cat lovers who genuinely care because not everyone in "real life" understands. It's nice to know Sami's life matters because I started to get angry that she was abandoned (I got her from a rescue who saved her from death row), then the original vet hurt her and essentially didn't care or follow-up and in my opinion abandoned her, then I couldn't get the neurologist to call back and I was angry for Sami that her life can be discarded and that animals are not given the compassion they deserve. But I've learned that we need to be our own advocates in health care, for ourselves and for our pets. No one else will really put in the effort. It's a sad fact. So I am Sami's advocate and I will not abandon her.
I'm sure this is the right place to share the condition of Sam with others, unfortunately I can’t help you much except hoping the best for Sam.
You are certain the inflammation would not persist for seven weeks? What if something is damaged that has the potential to cause continued irritation? (This is not a good example about the ear, but what if a person had a cracked cartilage in their foot and every time they moved their foot, it would rub on a nerve?)
Have you taken the original vets to court? I think if the cost to you is less than ten thousand dollars, it is a matter for local courts. I certainly would not hesitate.
Have you taken the original vets to court? I think if the cost to you is less than ten thousand dollars, it is a matter for local courts. I certainly would not hesitate.
yes please give us an update on Sam....we are all very concerned. We appreciate you allowing us to share the journey of treatment of this perplexing issue.
I'm afraid all I can do is refer you to some reading I found on Vestibular syndrome...I realize in Sam's case it was caused by an ear flushing and not the syndrome itself, but there is good knowledge in this article
(for canine as well as feline parents)
I am just wondering if damage to the inner nerves happened during the cleaning?? was this ever mentioned to you?
If there is inflammation in the ear canal tubes or surrounding them, I am assuming using the prednisone reduced the inflammation thus granting some sound waves to travel past. but why would the inflammation return when not using the prednisone? and Why the inflammation???
at the end of the article click on the blue highlighted tabs for surgery to open tympanic bullea...there are some good diagrams and knowledge there as well
plus click on the 'click here' symbol at the very end of the page. under 'stroke' again just more valuable info, whether it pertains to Sam's issue or not
wishing you both all our very best wishes...
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_vestibular_disease.html
I'm afraid all I can do is refer you to some reading I found on Vestibular syndrome...I realize in Sam's case it was caused by an ear flushing and not the syndrome itself, but there is good knowledge in this article
(for canine as well as feline parents)
I am just wondering if damage to the inner nerves happened during the cleaning?? was this ever mentioned to you?
If there is inflammation in the ear canal tubes or surrounding them, I am assuming using the prednisone reduced the inflammation thus granting some sound waves to travel past. but why would the inflammation return when not using the prednisone? and Why the inflammation???
at the end of the article click on the blue highlighted tabs for surgery to open tympanic bullea...there are some good diagrams and knowledge there as well
plus click on the 'click here' symbol at the very end of the page. under 'stroke' again just more valuable info, whether it pertains to Sam's issue or not
wishing you both all our very best wishes...
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_vestibular_disease.html
Hi Mom,
OH MY!!!!!! Sami is just too gorgeous for ONE photo--more please!!!!
Thank you for the update on Sami. Actually it sounds like you have found an excellent Vet advocate for your little girl . They seem to be doing all the right things in helping her.
I am no expert, but IMO the prednisone inflammation reducing effect may have allowed the conduction of sound waves to get through , whereas when the ear canal was inflamed it makes conduction harder or impossible.
Therefore Sami did not HEAR the noise, but FELT the vibration or conduction through the ear canal of the loud noise...Maybe??
LOUD noise may be the determining factor . Regular noises not so much.
Here is the thing: Just because Sami is deaf does not mean she has to give up on life. Cats live in the here and now so I do not think it is like she is saying '-Oh Hell I can't hear and therefore I cannot have fun and jump and play anymore , so I might as well lay around like a rock and be Unhappy!" OH NO! Sami is adapting as we speak. Cats are wonderful at this. Many cats become deaf and live long and happy lives, albeit on their terms.
This is where Mom comes in----It will take some help from you in helping Sami adapt faster.:
You must look at the things that hearing allows Sami to do, and help her do those things in another way.
Like jumping and balancing--Big time problem now--so make step ups to all things she loved to JUMP up to. Now she will just have to put one paw in front of the next to STEP up to those heights.
Like now you will interact with her yourself for her play time with feathers, and string, and laser lights.
You will now have to make her world COMPLETLY A VISABLE one. Get her a great new and high condo that she does not have to jump up to but can climb up to and bask in the beautiful warmth of the sun, and SEE all the visual treats (Birds, Bugs, lizards, etc). This is as close to heaven as a cat can get.
Most of all YOU must feel upbeat --stress and negativity is something Sami will sense. She needs to live through your optimistic view of her world.
.....and ya know , there are hearing aids for cats---yep that's right. Look into it, and then have your inept vet pay for them. It is the least he can do.
It is so good to hear from you so keep coming back and letting us know about our girlfriend, Sami. We are all cheering her on--does she know just how many friends she has made? ..........and how many more her story will help?
More photos of fabulous Sami and please give her a big smooch from CML!
OH MY!!!!!! Sami is just too gorgeous for ONE photo--more please!!!!
Thank you for the update on Sami. Actually it sounds like you have found an excellent Vet advocate for your little girl . They seem to be doing all the right things in helping her.
I am no expert, but IMO the prednisone inflammation reducing effect may have allowed the conduction of sound waves to get through , whereas when the ear canal was inflamed it makes conduction harder or impossible.
Therefore Sami did not HEAR the noise, but FELT the vibration or conduction through the ear canal of the loud noise...Maybe??
LOUD noise may be the determining factor . Regular noises not so much.
Here is the thing: Just because Sami is deaf does not mean she has to give up on life. Cats live in the here and now so I do not think it is like she is saying '-Oh Hell I can't hear and therefore I cannot have fun and jump and play anymore , so I might as well lay around like a rock and be Unhappy!" OH NO! Sami is adapting as we speak. Cats are wonderful at this. Many cats become deaf and live long and happy lives, albeit on their terms.
This is where Mom comes in----It will take some help from you in helping Sami adapt faster.:
You must look at the things that hearing allows Sami to do, and help her do those things in another way.
Like jumping and balancing--Big time problem now--so make step ups to all things she loved to JUMP up to. Now she will just have to put one paw in front of the next to STEP up to those heights.
Like now you will interact with her yourself for her play time with feathers, and string, and laser lights.
You will now have to make her world COMPLETLY A VISABLE one. Get her a great new and high condo that she does not have to jump up to but can climb up to and bask in the beautiful warmth of the sun, and SEE all the visual treats (Birds, Bugs, lizards, etc). This is as close to heaven as a cat can get.
Most of all YOU must feel upbeat --stress and negativity is something Sami will sense. She needs to live through your optimistic view of her world.
.....and ya know , there are hearing aids for cats---yep that's right. Look into it, and then have your inept vet pay for them. It is the least he can do.
It is so good to hear from you so keep coming back and letting us know about our girlfriend, Sami. We are all cheering her on--does she know just how many friends she has made? ..........and how many more her story will help?
More photos of fabulous Sami and please give her a big smooch from CML!
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