Bipolar and Ocd: Similarities? During Manic Episodes Do You Have Trouble with Obsessive Thoughts?

[ILADVOCATE]

Obviously, I know the difference between bipolar and ocd. But I notice during moodswings, mainly manic I have obsessive thoughts. Not always disturbing ones but they can difficult. And this must be true for some other people as well. I don't know if there is any overlap between the two disabilities but to some extent there must be as a person going on a spending spree may be a compulsive spender or they might be having a manic episode and binge spending. I know that before recovery that I would spend a lot of money and becoming obsessed with having certain cd's. It wasn't always a matter of money. There was an obsessive element. Or wanting to travel somewhere for no reason on impulse. The impulsive behavior was manic but there was an obsessive nature behind it as well. Have people been through this as well? Perhaps someone could explain.

[adel_ezz]

it's nice discussion, yet we will never know for sure what we are talking about. People who have studied for years don't know, i mean the doctors. Trying to hit our heads against the wall is a good pass time but we will not undo the puzzle.

It's true, sure OCD and BP are different, otherwise why calling them differently, especially that an AD like anafranil did me good one day, really good when my OCD was at its peak, today it does harm for me as it turns me manic. The idea that things change all the time with the brain, otherwise why from start we fall ill.

It's like how ILADVOCATE feels, that directly after signing my new contract of the new job i started yesterday, i went to check the toilets, they are clean. I am obcessed by the idea that i may have to go to the WC while at work and that i may find it dirty. I remember i had a brain lock for a few months on this issue of toilets and i kept thinking and rethinking when applying for a new job what will happen if i am stuck in a post with bad toilets. You don't know how lovely when i found this time everything clean. Again and many times when i put my shoes i like to put them spaced and parallel, of course now it's less but when under stress these things appear. Why i was sure at the onset of my disease that i am OCD is simple because my father is one. He was never manic yes he said during his life he was a little depressed but never alarmed like everybody else, but when i fell ill he started to go back in history to realize that he is OCD. Before my illness he never thought there was something serious about him only he said weird and odd but now my illness made him understand his case. He never took meds had no problem ever except he said he lost his first girlfriend whom he loved because he kept asking and asking and reasking her about her past history, after 3 years she got tired and left him. We realise at home that he keeps asking the same question in a different way to make sure he receives a convincing answer people say he can be a good district attorney, he never touches knobs, washes his hand quite often if he shakes hand with others. He put his cellular phone in his left pocket and uses his left hand which he keeps it clean to pick it up while his right hand he consecrates for shaking hands with people. He consumed 12 cellulars in 2 years because he sometimes forget and uses his right hand to answer the phone so he goes and washes the machine with soap and water (of course he knows well he is doing something crazy) so I think no need to doubt whether he is OCD or not and that by extrapolation I should have caught this from him, yet i shake hands with people easily, never get disgusted like him. So don't tell me my onset of the disease is BP. In the family we heard of BP only after 2006 after a 3 months solely of anafranil, then life went upside down, but from there on i became more liable to mania, you see now why i said that BP could be a complication. Especially as i was so stressful the 1st day in work i began to hesitate whether i should wear a hand watch or not, to either put it on my right arm or left, do things illogic, you can't convince me that my illness started with BP it was mere OCD, i was the type during my infancy calm quiet happy gentil tranquil with no noise charitable etc... so how come i developed this rage 3 times now in 2 years, beat my father in his stomack with my leg more than once and my legs on my mother face during my mania, how come i metamorphosed except the bloody anafranil which was my amazing pill one day because i stopped my risperidone 1mg during 3 monthsw i.e. my MS a mistake of the ignorant pdoc.

so my friend OCD and BP are different
ezz  

[ILADVOCATE]

I do wonder when people take medication and still have some remaining mania and these episodes occur that lead to behavior that isn't destructive but a bit unproductive if there isn't some way to redirect it. I generally try to do that but I do wonder if there's some form of behavioral therapy that can deal with that. I know when I used to have that problem I saved up chores and household tasks for those days and I knew as a rapid cycler they would happen. When I worked in the past, on those days I would get papers in order. A lot of what I do might happen more in a manic state but I catch the manic energy and redirect it. I do take a mood stabilizer but its not perfect. I think you can tell I just took it by post length lol.

[ILADVOCATE]

I agree about ocd and add. I also agree about people with bipolar who are misdiganosed with depression but that's because someone goes to the psych. hospital in a suicidal state and doesn't talk about their "really good days" as they see them which are actually undiagnosed mania or hypomania.
  I was originally diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. That was changed to schizoaffective. I know many people here have bipolar with psychotic features. I'm sure you are aware of how they differ so no need to discuss. But I would say a manic episode although it deviates from reality is something understandable. But psychosis even it occurs during mania is another issue. Sometimes its the symptom not the specific diagnosis. Psychosis is usually treated with an antipsychotic. Even if someone has bipolar if they are in an extreme manic episode will be given an antipsychotic to cool things down and then tapered off it. The best mood stabilizer I was on was Clozaril. It covered both psychosis and mania and I didn't require a mood stabilizer. That is common. Unfortunately it took care of my personality as well. I've never found anything, including the study antipsychotic I am on that can serve as both in a person with schizoaffective and its frustrating.

[monkeyc]

Yes people can have multiple diagnoses but that does not mean most do or that those diagnoses are right. Aspects of bipolar can and do look like OCD just as they can look like ADHD but that does not make you either.

How many manics in a psychtic state have been diagnosed as psychotic or schizophrenic? How often do bp patients in a depressed state get diagnosed as MDD and given AD drugs and end up dysphoric?

[ILADVOCATE]

Yes that's true but one can have a secondary diagnosis. The only reason I don't ask about it more is that all known anti-ocd medications will make me manic. I do think cbt would be a good idea. I just know the kind I tried that was helpful for a friend of mine who actually is diagnosed with ocd (and as happens has bipolar with psychotic features as well so they can indeed co-exist although they are different) from stopping taking 4 hour showers (at that time, there was no medication for ocd yet) was not helpful for me. It was called "flooding" and you described your obsessions and the therapist described giving into them in detail on a tape and you had to listen to it over and over which I did but it didn't convince me either way. I know there are other forms of behavioral therapy and perhaps some would be better for me.
  But clearly mania has a part in it. And in the past psychosis as well. Organizing your own house can be normal but some people with ocd do obsess on it and spend the whole day. And when I am manic I always put things in order. But in the past I would organize other people's apartments for them. I just couldn't stand to see a mess anywhere. When the local park was trashed by a bunch of kids who had a "rave" I reported it and nothing happenned so I spent hours in the hot sun cleaning it up. Clearly not very rational (later on the parks dept. finished "my" work). But that was years ago.  
  But a familly member as yet under treatment for bipolar when they get stressed or in a conflict with me will start organizing my stuff or fixing my clothes. And when I pointed out to them they were controlling me second hand they realizes it for themselves and stopped. And they thought they had ocd as well but I pointed out to them that certain nights they worried about "bad things they had done in the past" were when they were depressed and when they "asked for supportive advice" from a fiance who passed away on other nights they were manic. They spoke to their therapist who agreed and they are seeking psychiatric help. The psychiatrist of course will make the final diagnosis but it seems it was never ocd so people shouldn't confuse the two but when bipolar and ocd co-exist in a person they can and do overlap.

[Bear13]

I remember spending one day (literally 7 hours) vacuuming my apartment.  It's 850 square feet, I laugh now, but I honestly thought at the time, that my vacuum just wasn't picking up the dirt, and I could see it... it was crazy, I would vacuum, turn it off, and 20 minutes later I was vacuuming again.... cleanest floor in the state that day, I'm sure :)