Need Advice

[Amyjo101]

I haven't been here for a bit due to her illness:

As the parent of a 15 year old who has bipolar disorder and has been diagnosed for a little over a year on medication since November 07 was stablish for about 9 months and had a break the beginning of August 08 has taken several months to get her back stablish and one of the things that had to be done to get her stable was remove her from the public school system.

She hasn't really cycled in over a month, her medication seems stable:

How do I tell her with out starting a huge bruhaha (fight) that she needs to pull herself up by her boots straps and figure out what she is going to do with her life. She is suppose to be homeschool/and studying for her GED, what she is doing is sleeping most of the day and not able to sleep at night and she sits around upset and depressed because her life isn't on track.

HELLO!!! She is the only one who can get her life on track but if I talk to her she feels like I am attacking her and if I don't talk to her I feel like I am not doing my parental job. I don't know how to handle this. I have had to go into counseling myself due to the stress of her illness on my depression. I really need help here from someone who has been there either due to the illness or being involved in someone's life with bipolar.

HELP

Amy

[Irenak]

He is seeing a psychiatrist and a therapist.  The suicide attempt was due to what I call the perfect storm.  It was due to the jolt he got when my husband actually tried to be the parent instead of the friend for a change.  We also found out that he was abusing the medication he was on.  If he felt anxiety, he took more, thinking it would make him feel better.  Instead it helped him try to kill himself instead.  There was a couple of more things going on at the time, but those were the two that were the most prominent.  By the way, all psychiatrists are not created equal.  We didn't know it, but the one that my son was seeing before the suicide attempt was not much more that a drug pusher. He pretty much was asking my son what he wanted, what strength, etc., and not talking about much of anything.  When your kid is 19, they are considered an adult.  They operate independent of the parents.  Things are different. The psychiatrist he has now is better.  One thing is for sure, you can learn a lot about your kid by reading their text messages on the phone,  In the hospital, I had plenty of time to do some reading and I learned A LOT. Of course he is in need of help.  We know that and are trying everything.  But like Amyjo101 said, there is still a point to where one has to take responsibility for oneself.  They have to choose to utilize what has been given.  Think about what state of mind you and your friends had when you were 15, 18, 19.  You can't just force them.  Thy have to figure it out for themselves.  Time and maturity will help along with utilizing their support group.  I just didn't want to see Amy alienating her daughter, which would lower chances of recovery for them both.  So, thank you ILADVOCATE.  I will have to look into the schizoaffective disorder.  It is a strong possibility since I had an uncle with schizophrenia.  My husband also has anxiety.  Poor kid just didn't have a chance.  

[ILADVOCATE]

Before I started treatment for schizoaffective disorder (schizophrenia with a mood disorder) I went through some of these changes you speak about such as avoiding people and lacking motivation which can be part of the negative symptoms of schizophrenia though only a psychiatrist could provide a conclusive diagnosis. Staying up late for no reason which I experienced before treatment can signal the onset of manic episodes. If he attempted suicide as well its essential that he see a psychiatrist as soon as possible. Schooling is another issue and that's a person's decision but what seems like behavior that is willfully isolating people and avoiding them and everything else you described are signs that he is in need of help. There are family support groups as well such as NAMI friend and family support groups and psychiatrists are respectful of a person's religion and there are specific mental health support groups with that in mind.

[Irenak]

I am basically you except I have a 19 year old boy.  Here is how we muddled through these issues.  My husband and I pulled our son out of public school also.  We home schooled him to finish out the school year.  In the meantime we looked for a different type of school.  We found a non-denominational christian school for him, even though we were not going to a church at the time.  However, we did start to go on principal so that we wouldn't be lying.  They would never have checked up, but we did it anyway.  We found a nice small little church.  What was good about the school was that it was very small.  The smaller the better. My son made a few good friends, stayed out of trouble and finished high school. Trust me.  All this was not easy but it worked for us. My son then found a job which he worked for two years.  He tried community college but didn't like it. This is another story, so we will leave it at that.

So here is where we are now.  Our son is 19 1/2. He is now jobless, not going to school, disrespectful, a major slob and like your daughter, is up all night and sleeps half the day.  When we tried to put our foot down, so to speak, he attempted suicide.  One good thing that changed a lot for us is that our son can stay on our insurance now until he is 26. That is a big deal because he is also a diabetic.  Since the suicide attempt, we have chosen to give our son some "time off".  He also has a therapist.  Every situation is different so don't apply the rest of this unless it feels right.  Get you daughter out of the house and into some different kind of school.  You will both loose your minds completely.  She needs friends right now.  She can't be isolated completely. You will both get along better if you are not together all the time.  Perhaps you can find someone to homeschool her with their kid in another home.  Or, find the what you think will be the right school (very small and not super strict) with the goal being a high school education.  If she repeats a grade here and there, so what.  Now the next goal is to give her time to sort things out on her own.  Allow time for her brain to finish growing and her hormones to stabalize.  There is a huge difference in an 18 year old and a 21 year old.  The brain is still growing until around 24.  Consider your daughter a late bloomer.  What she needs more than anything is love and feeling secure.  Friends were super important for my son, more than anything. She may not go back to school until she is 21 or 22 (college).  She may find a job she likes and not go to school at all.  Until she sorts things out, find ways to keep your daughter busy.  It has to be what she can handle, not what you want.  If she is disrespectful at home, don't pick a fight but don't reward her either.  Let her know if her behavior is inappropriate and have appropriate consequences.  Follow through and be consistent but most importantly find a way to do it without turing away from her.  If she does not feel loved if you do not have her respect, you will have a much harder time. Encourage her to find a part time job now.  Find one for her even if you have to pay her yourself.  Animals can be helpful.  Maybe a job taking care of animals in some way.  You know her best. Just don't impose your own agenda on her.  Don't have expectations.  Do your best to guide and mold within the parameters you have. I'll bet if you took a little extra time with your daughter, you will start to see beautiful things in her.  If you try to stay on a track of control and fitting into a box, you may end up hating each other or you may lose her.  Educate yourself and start talking to your daughter.  The sooner the better.  Mostly, don't compare yourself to other people or to the norm.  Perhaps that is why you are having this experience in the first place. there is something to be learned from this for everyone.  The cause of all unhappiness is expecting something to be a certain way.....and it isn't.  You may never have what you think of as a normal life.  Drop your expectations. Don't judge your daughter or yourself.  Take some time off yourself and just learn to love your daughter again.  You ARE a good parent.  You just have a different story to tell then most. You will be a great parent when you learn to be more creative when life throws you a curve ball.  Find a way to have fun doing it, not make it like work.  Don't react to your daughters moods and have her dictate whether you have a good or bad day.  Allow her to express herself just try to help her to do it in a healthy way. Don't teach her during the episode, address it when you are driving for ice cream or something.  Learn to live, take care of yourself and be happy.  You will be an example and inspiration for her.  And....you are not alone.  My own story is still unfolding. Believe in the happy ending and the rest will come.

[joykitty]

If you have depression I guess you will be able to be feel her world right now. It is really not easy for you but it is not easy for her too. Give her sometime, I remember when I was in the hospital, I have a pdoc who told me that "You are climbing a mountain, currently there is just a thunderstorm, you just need to stay still don't do anything, take your medication and wait for the storm to past and you will meet the sun again, that is when you can start to climb again." Sometime when you are depressed, everything people say just came out negatively even when they don't mean it. Please don't tell her to "Pull herself up her own bootstraps" it is not going to work and might only make things worse. I'm not a mum, but I can feel that you are a great mum, just that things seem to go out of hands at this moment, that make you feel so bad. Be strong both for your daughter and yourself.

[ILADVOCATE]

Well I've been through the issue from both angles. Before I recovered (read through my posts) I had full psychotic symptoms of schizoaffective disorder and certainly medication helped but not completely (the recovery rate is much stronger for straight bipolar even with current treatment). And before I was on medication I did avoid people. Growing up as a teenager I couldn't relate to people or understand them. I would say that's a part of many psychiatric disabilities. My parents didn't understand what was going on and it was tough. I was the one who sought treatment and I honestly didn't have anyone's support even then because they confused it with "pills". I didn't have their support until I was hospitalized. I think its a step forward to understand that what she is going through is treatable and to help her before it got that out of hand. Now I have the opposite experience in encouraging my mother to seek help for cylothymia (mild bipolar) but we are supportive of each other. Since you experience depression I would think the best way is not so much to "cope with her" but to think about what you have been through and find something in common. I would say the NAMI support groups for friends and family should be helpful in that regard. You both have your own recovery process and perhaps you have some issues in common. With that approach I'd say you'd be more likely to reach her.

[jst4shanell]

Also keep in mind that a teenager's brain and sleep cycles are different from adults even without the BP.  So i'm sure it's even intensified.
I am 29, but going through the same thing your daughter is.  I am exausted during the day and bouncing off the walls at night.  My bedtime is usually between 3-5 in the morning.  This is not her fault and for me I really respond to positive reinforcment.  My mom is all about the tough love and it does not work.  She told me one time that she thinks I want to be "coddled".  That is absolutely not what I want. I just don't want to feel even more alone than I already feel.

[hell1971]

My thoughts are with you, I know how you are feeling as I said in my previous post my daughter has sufferred, she is only 8 years old and had a major depression for eight weeks that as a family we found unbearable to watch the stress from this ended with me with the diagnosis of Bipolar and her with Celiacs and possible Bipolar, as a mother you just want to fix it but as life teaches us things are not that simple, you can only do your best and ride the wave with her but I would be concerned that she is on her own so much, my 8 year old wanted to kill herself but as hard as this was to hear I new she was safe as she is always with someone but I wonder if you have anyway of having her have less time on her own.

take care hell

[monkeyc]

She will come through this, its hard to watch and I know that from seeing my wife watch me right now, Ive gone downlhill again myself and the suicidality is back which is terrifying enough to me let alone my wife.

The only thing I guess we can do is hang on - yes likely she is sleeping all day as she is alone, she may not want to be with people but she likes them being around, its a paradox.

Hang in there, given a little time she will right herself, she just needs the supportive people she has around her - I cannot imagine what this must be like for a teenage girl to go through and for a mother to watch - I know its bad enough for a 37 year old man.

[Amyjo101]

Thanks for the input. We are both in counseling- I need it for my depression and eating disorder but also both of our counselors are able to communicate with each other so that they can come up with game plans to help me cope with her.

I would never really tell her to pull herself up by her boot straps, I was kind of using that metaphorically speaking. It is just so difficulty looking at her floundering and stagnant. It feels like I am enabling her to continue in this state but I know if I push it will more than likely cause a conflict that will in turn cause her to cycle and she is not a nice manic person... Ask my walls....

I just feel helpless, hence the reason I was asking for opinions on how to handle this, I can't walk in her shoes- I can't imagine what she is going through.

Amy

[Amyjo101]

I think I have read almost every book that there is out there. I have bought most of them and try to go through the motions as dictated by the most thought provoking books. I also have gone to the NAMI Family to Family class and I am a RN who if a psych patient walks through the door I usually get it because I am so use to caring for them and have a special connection with them.

I talk to her counselor today and mine. With hers we talked about the need for them to working towards specific goals and setting some kind of game plan to be working toward.

With mine, we talked about the fact I can't use any kind of "tough love" with her and would not any more intentionally cause her more stress than she is under.

We also talked about the fact that she is alone during the day a lot so she has time to sit and dwell on the problems facing her. This is not a good thing, because its a vicious circle- she is depressed, she gets up and starts to study because she needs to gets distracted by the thoughts in her (she has mixed state alot) and then gets more depressed. She sleeps to not have to cope alone, I am at work, her friends are at school or work and she is stuck at home alone.

So until she is able to get her GED and get a job/car/transportation etc. Letting her cope this way is probably the safest bet and probably will produce less anxiety. So as much as I don't like it I guess we have a game plan.

Any more advice is still welcome.

Amy

[monkeyc]

Ok one thing you should not do is tell her pull herself up by her boot straps and get her life together.

This is the sort of thing that people who know nothing about bipolar or depression do all the time to us and its not going to help and it in fact only frustrates and hurts more - we want to get on with our lives but we cannot.

Depression is a real thing, its a chemical imbalance in the brain and its not something you can think your way out of or be pushed or pulled out of - Im going through it myself right now and ive been through it before and there is no way you can come out of this with well meaning advice.

The reality is she is likely not ready to start school again - she hasnt cycled in a month but that does not mean she has recovered stable state by any chance and pushing her simply risks pushing her back into another cycle - your own admission is she is depressed.

Yes you both need counselling, my wife and I both see psychologists (she is seeing one right?) and thats the way of bipolar - none of us are alone in our world and the people around us need to learn.  There are some excellent source books on living with bipolar teens out then - an amazon search will find these and they are worth starting with as bipolar's are not normal.

Its a common belief among people that all a depressed person needs to do is pull their lives together as if its that easy.  I sometimes wish these people could spend one day in our minds when things are bad.

Please do not push her, you have no idea how bad things can get if you do - the suicide attempt rate is very high in bipolar's and in teenage girls higher still and pushing someone the wrong way.....

[hell1971]

Hi

I have only recently been diagnosed but I have done alot of research, I can also tell you that I have a daughter who has a mental illness complicated or precipitated by celiacs. I can understand how frustrated you may feel but you need to take a step back and understand that this is an illness not something your daughter can control, I went 37 years undiagnosed and was told the only reason I survived was that I have had really good coping stratagies and that recentley when I was diagnosed in a mixed state from having been given an antidepressant which sent me hypomanic, I had only asked for help due to the stress I was under with my daughter they told me my coping stratagies were just not cutting the mustard anymore and that I was a ticking time bomb. The best advise I can give you is to support your daughter, she is so young to be facing this, read books about living with Bipolar and when your daughter is stable you can try and teach her some stratagies that can lessen  the impact this illness has on her life but first you need to accept that she cannot just pull herself out of it, she at the moment has a double wammy, she is at that normal difficult teenage time with hormones raging and then she also has bipolar, I know how hard this is but you need to be strong yourself so that you can help her, so look after yourself, continue your therapy and find out as much as you can about bipolar, I found the books that are about new hope and living with bipolar and 4 steps to living successfully with bipolar, those types of books give you the diagnostic explainations on the illness and makes you understand it is an illness and some good lifestyle choices and managment stratagies you can put in place. I hope all goes well

[ILADVOCATE]

You should talk to her but not with that approach. "Pull herself up her own bootstraps" would not be the right approach. She has a psychiatric disability that affects her functioning including social relations. That's part of her disability. Medications are sedating and they may be what's keeping her up at night as well. Its best to set up accomodations and to speak closely with her psychiatrist and therapist but not blame her for what's going on. She needs your support now. Perhaps other family members can help as well.