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352007 tn?1372857881

According to my MS Specialist

Today was the "big" day to see what he thought of what was going on with me with the lessening of symptoms.

He said he didn't know.  He had Movement Disorder specialist, a Neuro-opth and a urologist look at me and they can't come up with nothing.  

The only thing left he said is, "Conversion Disorder".  

I asked him after our first initial visit, does he remember when I called him about an hour later to ask some questions and one of them was, "Do you think this is psychogenic or a conversion disorder?"  He said, "No I don't remember".  I said, when I asked you, you said "No".  I also told him that if I truly felt that this is what I was going through, I would of seen a psychiatrist long before seeing him.  In fact, if I thought by now if I had a conversion disorder, I'd be seeing one today or making an appointment to see one soon.  I told him that I would rather have something that is "fixable" and go on medications and participate in therapy to get this all squared away.

I know in my heart and with my knowledge base in the medical field, that this is not the case.

I think he had given up on me himself.  

So now what.

Lisa
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352007 tn?1372857881
It was definitely a wishy-washy emotional response to the blow that I received by the very people I placed my complete trust in to guide me and help me figure out what was wrong.

I have regained my "mojo" as you call it, thanks to "Twopack" (Mary), "Rendean" and Shelly's input. (as well as all of your support in this thread). I was up and down like a yo-yo.  All it took was attentive listening and turning me around to face me in another direction along  with a gentle push to keep me going.

I had to remind myself I went through worse things in my life (death of my 15 month old son due to a deteriorating brain stem) or my other son who went through 2 years of chemotherapy for Non Hodgkins Lymphoma who is now in remission for the past 12 years.  I did not have neurological symptoms then to convert inner conflict/stress into physical ones and I know don't have them now.  

I'll be damned to believe that all this time this is something of a psychological nature.  (Although they almost had me convinced there was a possibility).

Anyways,  I refuse to not obsess over this anymore. I do have a plan (thanks to twopack, Rendean and Shelly) and mindset of moving onward and passed them.

Thank you for your support Barb, it is greatly appreciated.

Lisa

Helpful - 0
1475492 tn?1332884167
Lisa,

I guess I'm a bit confused. Maybe this is the emotional response or it is a natural response to validate that you are right? I do not know but I do not see how you would even consider this to be psychological in nature, not with two tests that are purely scientific and can't be pyschologically based. They are not subjective whereas a doctor's interpretation of how you manage your symtpoms is.... just saying.

It's like watching people go through the death of the spouse or even losing a child. You THINK you know how you would respond but unless you are there *going through the exact situation and emotions* as the widowed, you really have no idea. None!

I can understand feeling taking down at the knees but I'm not sure I'd understand entertaining this much beyond "maybe my stress is making my symptoms or the way I view them worse." Well... DUH! That is common knowledge. It's logical. It's reasonable. No?

I don't know girl. I think it's time for a clean slate. I think it's time to find a new PCP and continue seeing this MSologist and allow him to gather DIT. I suspect that will be where I am next as well. We both started about the same time frame..we can wait together.   :)

That said, I do think it's reasonable to seek counseling to help you through all these doubts and find your mojo against all the arrogant, judgmental and self righteous doctor's you have encountered.  If I had stuck with the PCP that I saw when I started having symptoms (not my typical PCP) and the MSologist/Neuro the last six months --- I'd be exactly where you are but I picked up on their lack of care. I ran.

Okay, now that I type that, maybe I'd seek a psychiatric examination to prove them wrong as well. :)

Take care you,
~Barb
Helpful - 0
352007 tn?1372857881
@Tammy:  

Thank you for your supportive response and I will keep in mind your words of wisdom and unfortunate experiences.  

Unfortunately, I now have the seed implanted in my head by my MS Neuro and Primary doctor and I have no "fertilizer" to stop it from growing (the implication that my symptoms are of a psychiatric nature).  Even with a top notch MS Neuro who has only seen me only once and of a short time stated that he does not think its conversion disorder (I told him what my other MS Neuro and PCP felt), still leaves me in doubt and this seed is starting to sprout.  

Was I elated and relieved to hear this top notch doctor's opinion stating he doesn't feel that I do? Of course..  A big weight was lifted off my shoulders (for the evening at least), but by morning, I began to wonder and doubt for my symptoms do come and go as my PCP said...

The only way to rid of this doubt is to go ahead and make an appointment with a psychiatrist to evaluate me and figure out the validity of this conclusion by those who have seen me over the past year (PCP) and MS Neuro (one who has seen me 5 times).


__________________________________________________________________________

@ Mary:  

Thank you for your well thought out response and as always a voice of reason.  I do take heed of the advice offered.

It is hard not to look over my shoulder with this skepticism I've developed.  It's cumbersome and all too consuming to ignore.  

Since I've been told that they feel that it is a psychiatric overlap with my symptoms, I have a tendency to believe what they say has some validity to their conclusion (they are doctors and I am not).  I then say to myself, "Perhaps this is not the most dignified diagnosis but it is not a progressive demyelinating disease and it is treatable. Go get the help you need."

It is the vacillation that is eating away at me, therefore, to rule in or rule out their conclusion, there is only one thing I can do about it -- go get a psychiatric evaluation.

No matter what it is, I will continue to step forward.  I've been through worse in my lifetime (as a couple of personally know) and I will get through this eventually.


Thank you both again.

Lisa

Helpful - 0
1045086 tn?1332126422
AU CONTRAIRE about May unless you say you MAY be in need of a new PCP who doesn't have a tendency to think she is qualified to offhandedly assign diagnoses of a serious psychiatric nature when even psychiatric specialists are hesitant to do so.  

I do believe Lisa that you now have TWO docs who have uttered (and I quote) MS, one using the 'possible' prefix and now one preferring 'probable'.  You may not be prescribed a DMD yet (and that is VERY unfortunate, not to mention WRONG) but there is NO WAY I see this as marching in place so that had better not be a sign off tone I hear in your last post.

There is no way I believe you should waste a single minute looking over your shoulder.  Doubt is common to all of us and oddly enough will often gain strength and momentum after diagnosis.  It comes without regard for how swift or delayed the delivery of diagnosis.  It will come to you in the future as surely as it has come in the past but it should never make you question what you know it be true about yourself.

There is NOBODY here (to my memory) who has EVER been advised AGAINST listening to their inner Self regarding when or where to seek a diagnosis or the wisdom of accepting treatment advise or how to interpret a medical opinion that falls outside expected boundaries.

Put your trust in a doctor who feels trustworthy and then accept that time will pass as quickly as it can to find your solution.

Mary

One last thing.  There is NO reason to post a question or comment on the forum and then feel compelled to take responses as gospel (if you have a religious view) or law (if you're more of a secular type).  On the other hand, please take care to hear what people have to offer.

There's a report above of personal doubt concerning treatment that was coaxed into its very existance by doubts expressed by 'some' forum members.  I believe the claim.  I'm just a little surprised to hear it from a member who regularly claims to care little to nothing about what other's think of her.  

The surprise doesn't keep me from feeling sad the doubt was given freedom to emerge -- because I remember clearly there was a poster who stated she had heard of this treatment even though it might not be used frequently.  

I'm especially glad to notice these personal doubts didn't lead to rejection of the ordered treatments (even though somehow I doubt that was ever really very likely) because we have since had several additional reports of variations of the treatment being ordered AND being used effectively.

And thus my advise to take care to hear what people offer.  Help can come from unexpected people or be found in unexpected places.  But it can also be overlooked in a moment when your attention is distracted by unexpected reactions to a thing you say or do.  

I wish the person claiming she had heard of planned, regular, periodic high dose steroids to treat MS had realized other comments were sparking such personal doubt.  She might have been able to offer more.  Surely, at minimum, she would have engaged in conversation as a supporter of an accepted, albeit poorly recognized treatment.  I know she would have.  Sadly, I may have accepted being ignored without considering my comments had been overlooked.  

In the end, all communication is precarious yet nothing matches the strong potential for error that exists in the very nature of the written word.  Be cautious but never stop stepping forward.
Helpful - 0
867787 tn?1318936230
Lisa, It does take time & a MS diagnosis can be a grueling process, but don't give up. Your experience mirrors my own & now 4 yrs later I finally have a dx. I had to take some time off from drs , MS, ect. Give yourself time to absorb all of this!! I was soo very frustrated by the whole process & now I am dealing with some anger towards the neuros as well as the local hospital which now has me marked as a psychiatric patient due to an incompetant ER doctors dx of conversion disorder. Hang in there &  I pray things get better & that you have a dx & treatment soon!! (((HUGS)))
Helpful - 0
352007 tn?1372857881
Thanks you all for your constant and unfailing support.  

But still, Im no farther than I was in May.

Lisa
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1475492 tn?1332884167
Wow! What a difference a decent doctor makes. I want to hear more so when you are up to it, can you detail the appointment?  Hugs to you Lisa, I know this fight has taken it out of you but you DID IT!!!

Helpful - 0
1394601 tn?1328032308
Lisa, I hate to say this but the damage from the medical profession has been done.  You will now get to spend years watching over your shoulder thinking they still got it wrong.  I know when my neuro began to aggressively fight my MS even some on this board doubted she was treating the MS correctly.  I began again to doubt.  It has now been fifteen months since I was dxed.  After this recent 30 day hospital stay, I will never doubt again.  I had some of the best neuro's in the country looking over my neuro's shoulder.  She sure was doing the right thing.

So try to put your trust in this doctor.  Plug your ears to those that do not know your story nor understand it.  I am so happy someone finally is listening and not sending you off with an excuse dx.

Hugs, Sumana
Helpful - 0
1753162 tn?1317278184
I've been reading this but feeling so darn icky myself and not commenting much... BUT did want to say I'm so glad to hear of your outcome today. I know how hard it is when you start doubting yourself :(
Helpful - 0
739070 tn?1338603402
Lisa,

Told ya it wasn't conversion disorder!!!  Now it's your turn to prove me wrong about something. Good luck :{ )..........

Ren
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Avatar universal
Lisa, Yay!!!! See, You are not nuts afterall!!!! Love ya . :)

Glad you had some sort of end result that seems to be more realistic !!!!!!!! Finally.

Big Hugs, Pam
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352007 tn?1372857881
Everyone:

It was a long day today going to NYC to see my Neuro (travel wise) since the city is on high alert with the terrorist threat.

Anyways, end result:

I do not have a conversion disorder.
My LP results show definitively CNS inflammation conducive to an autoimmune disease as well as some of my blood work.

MS: Probable

MRI in January and to follow up.

No medications at this time were prescribed.

(Side note: Conversion disorder does not create t2 hyperintensity nor can it alter LP results)

Thanks to you all for your support

Lisa
Helpful - 0
1475492 tn?1332884167
I was under the impression that RRMS tends to come and go - lol - and early in the course of the disease the symptoms can remit so much that you may feel completely normal.

Keep that appointment.

Helpful - 0
1394601 tn?1328032308
Sorry Lisa, I am having a laugh.  Your neuro tells you that it is not MS because your symptoms come and go.  Mine told me it wasn't MS because my symptoms never went away.

You already know from this board how many have been told it is conversion disorder, stress, depression or anxiety.  Mine blamed it on depression and a pinched nerve.  You know your body better and your spouse sure knows you well enough to know if you were making it up.

Keep that appointment.  
Helpful - 0
352007 tn?1372857881
I also find it odd, that since I am under a lot of emotional stress over this, that I don't have any "symptoms" or new ones for that matter.  If I had conversion disorder, would I not be "worse" today than I was yesterday?

I just don't know anymore.  Honestly I do not.
Helpful - 0
352007 tn?1372857881
Thank you all again for your support and kind words.

I spoke to my primary last night and I asked her if she had spoken to my MS Specialist recently and she said, "Yes".

I continued on saying,, "Well then you're aware that the Neuro feels that my symptoms are of psychiatric in nature ie: conversion disorder".  She said, Yes.  I asked her what she felt and she too said, "I feel there's a psychiatric overlapping going on".  I asked her "why" she felt this way.  She said to me, "Because your symptoms come and go and with MS they remain and get worse over time."  I said, "But I can't convert t2 hyperintensities in my brain can i?"  She responded, "No, you do have some abnormalities of your brain."

She then proceeded to tell me that the movement disorder specialist who saw me in the hospital stated "she did not feel that it was "MS" and that it was of a psychiatric nature."

I then questioned her about this.  I said, you mean to tell me for five months, you all were thinking this was of a psychiatric disorder and not one of you have wanted to consult a Psychiatrist during my inpatient hospital stay and throughout all these months?  She didn't answer and said, "Here are the numbers to great Psychiatrists".  I thanked her and hung up.

I told my significant other about this and his response was, "Why do you think three professionals feel that what you have is psychiatric?  I said, "I dont know, perhaps there is some validity to their conclusions?" He said, "I dont know why you would "make up" all this.

But what Im mostly bothered by the whole scenerio, is that if they felt this way back in April...(which my primary wanted me to go to the ER where I did not) why did they allow this to go on for so long without telling me their thoughts or conclusions? Why not say, "Hey Lisa, this is what we think and you should go see someone".  All this time I've been suffering up and down like a yo-yo and I could have been getting the help I need?

I dont know what to do. I dont know if I should even go to the MS Specialist in NYC.  

Lisa
Helpful - 0
1475492 tn?1332884167
Sweeet! :)
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1394601 tn?1328032308
Lisa, I would tell him I am there for a second opinion.  I would bring only the MRI's.  I would state as fact that you want fresh eyes and will only share the other neuro's findings AFTER he has given you his dx.  Period.

I did this and the neuro went right along with it.  She also dxed me by the next day at noon.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I wouldn't bring up the conversion disorder at all. No way. Just bring him your records, MRI scans, etc. and let him figure out everything on his own.  I think that would be the best plan.  

It's great that he can see you that quickly and that he costs less and that he take payments!!!  

Definitely good news today!
-Kelly
Helpful - 0
352007 tn?1372857881
He said there were no changes in the lesions.

I have what I need for him to get a handle on what was done along with all my MRI CD's from 2007 to 2011.

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1475492 tn?1332884167
I think you should go see him tomorrow ---- I don't think there is a need to discuss conversion disorder unless he specifically asks. I doubt he will question it taking one look at your MRI. Do you have all your other test copies too so you don't have to waste time collecting labs and such? He can just look at them tomorrow?

One other question: What did your MRI report say that goes with the MRI on your profile?
Helpful - 0
352007 tn?1372857881
Thank you everybody.....

I had called a MS Specialist who was the Director of the MS Center at NY Weill Cornell who now has his own practice (I think he said he broke off from the hospital full time?)

Anyways, I went through my Medicaid phone directory and found his name, looked him up on the internet and he is considered one of the NY's Best MS Specialists.

I called the phone number the Medicaid provider directory gave me and it was his direct line (cell phone).  He picked up the phone and said, "Hello".  I immediately apologized saying, "I think I have the wrong phone number because I'm hoping to get a hold of the doctor's office".  "This is the doctor, he said.  I was like OMG!  

Long story short, he doesnt accept Medicaid or subdivisions of medicaid's plans but he said he will decrease payment from 500.00 to 300.00 for me and that I can go on a payment plan and just to bring a check to put a down payment on the bill.  He said he could see me tomorrow at 5pm.  

Question is: Do I tell him what my last visit with my MS Specialist said about conversion disorder? I'm not ashamed to say that this was "his" conclusion, because I do not believe what has been going on is being made up or dissociative or factitious.  Or do I leave it alone and let him decide? Or do I cancel this appointment make it later in September, rush to get a neuro-psych evaluation then go back and can get it all out on the table?

Please help since I dont have much time.

Lisa
Helpful - 0
1713150 tn?1314467342
Sorry you are going through this Lisa.  I would be very frusterated as well.  Beyond frustrated!

I agree with everyone that it's time for a different neuro.  I truly hope everything works out for you Lisa.

I also wanted to say that it seems like every time There are posts about an MS specialist visit, the patient gets no aswers.  I don't know why but it seems like the opposite would happen.??  

You will be in my prayers!  Have a better day, ok!  

Kelli
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I like the up front challenge there!  She needs a new neuro for sure.........sorry is so frustrating........
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