Dawson's Fingers...does this sound right?

[burbanchick]

I found this on wikipedia...this was drought up in a previous post, so I thought I would give it it's own thread...

"Dawson's Fingers" is a condition affecting the brain of Multiple Sclerosis victims. The condition is the result of a build-up of pressure in the veins within the chest cavity, which causes blood in these veins to flow backwards through one of the jugular veins, and into the brain. This backflow of blood results in the engorgement of veins within the brain, causing damage to the surrounding tissues. This results in a finger-like appearance of the lesions extending mainly off the ventricles within the brain. The term is named for histologist James Walker Dawson, who first defined the condition

Quix, does that sound right to you...

~Burban-c

[Quixotic1]

It's back on the second page.  Your name's in the title.  The topic comes up a lot and I really don't know what to answer.  MS plaques are not always classic and people with VERY suggestive symptoms and problems are always being told their 'white matter disease" is from things like age, high BP, smoking (lol), and other things.  Maybe you could ask around, or if you already know, shed some light on the topic.  Then we can add it to the MRI thread as a general resource.

I don't have any access to sites that you guys don't have.  Those are pricey subscription sites and I just don't have the extra income.  It's just that in practicing general medicine I had to get very good at ferreting out info really quick.

Tanks in advance, Quix

[Bob368]

I found a numerous amount of information about Dawson's Fingers on the internet. The lesions of multiple sclerosis are periventricular, ovoid, and oriented perpendicularly to the ventricular surface. These are occasionally called "Dawson's Fingers". The perivascular distribution of inflammatory cells and the resulting fingerlike appearance of affected veins and venules in MS brain tissues.


Bob :)

[Lulu54]

greetings and welcome to the MS forum here.  You may not realize it, but you posted your story on a fairly old thread.  Many people won't go back and read these old posts.
  

I hope that you will copy what you wrote here and begin a new post so everyone will see it.  We have a great community with very helpful members.  I'm sure thay would love to join in this discussion.

It sure sounds to me like you have MS from your MRI report, but I'm no radiologist.  The Dawson's fingers would definitely be a conclusive lesion - they occur only with MS from what I understand.  

Welcome again, and I'll watch for your new post.

be well,
Lulu

[maartu]

I am 50 years old and in my early twenties I had several episodes/symptoms that came and went away as almost as quickly as they surfaced, thank God!

Here is my story. I delivered my daughter in 1979 in mid 1980 I had a foot drag, loss of sight in one eye, protrusion on right side of my scalp. I went through lots of testing, spinal taps... about one month of hospitalization. I was told that I possibly had MS or a stroke but was never diagnosed with either.

Well, I recently got an MRI because I had been having other problems (numbness in joint of my elbow and both feet, headaches that pain pills cannot relieve, tingling in my legs, sore spots and swelling on my scalp) that I chalked up to exercising to much.

Well, I am sitting here reading the written record of my MRI result. I am not fully understanding the report but it says something like right frontal lob encephalomalcia/gliosis consistent with patient's history of MS. I never told them I had confirmed MS because it was not confirmed! The report also says low T1 and high T2 and additional left-sided periventricular high T2 signal may be consistent with Dawson's finger. There are spots on my brain on the CD that was sent to my Neurologist. She says that she needed results of a written report because it could just be shadows. Now, I am waiting to get back in to see my Neurologist.

[jensequitur]

Hi, LesBri!  Welcome to the forum!

As far as I know, the only thing that can cause Dawson's Fingers in the brain is MS.  It's one of the classic signs.  Either the first neurologist got it wrong, or the other three got it wrong.  

We like our new members to post a new thread to talk about their symptoms, and what led them to this forum.  Feel free to tell us your story!

[LesBri]

I was told I had dawson fingers in the brain,(from a MRI) the hospitals in NV tx'd me for MS with IV steriods, then told I was dying. I returned to Michigan and told by 3 neurologist I don't have MS. What else could cause dawson fingers in the brain???

[Angie1960]

Wow you have a lot of info - I have to learn to navigate this and find the MRI thread - It doesn't look like I have "Dawson's Fingers" and my spots tend to be toward the sides rather than in the middle interior, although on the sagittal you can see that they look halfway down (I have the cd) many in the very front of my brain but scattered.  The Neuro - said they were atypical - but my symptoms definitely look like MS.  The Neuro exam showed brisk reflexes (knees) and failure of heel to toe walking test (eyes closed) now I even think that I had it in childhood and it progressed like the normal pattern of chldhood RR then converting over to chronic.  

I have also read that the old lesions can resolve or get smaller and that enhancing lesions are less common in later stage PPMS.

Any info?  My lesions did not enhance but the areas they are in seem to correlate with symptoms - except none were seen in the brainstem or pons which I would think woulld be there given my past REM sleep disorder.

Thanks for everything!

[stargazerv_2000]

You are right about what they won't tell you.  When I was 19 I was told I had a disease that might cripple me, cause me a lot of pain, and  I might not live to a ripe old age.  That was many long years ago.  I didn't want to deal with it then, because it sounded too scarey. I started getting sick in my late 30's with a chronic nature.  At the CC they told me if only I would have their expensive tests they could rule out this or that.  They ruled out nothing.  They did a whole day of testing and wrote me a non confirming letter telling me I needed more testing of  my blood.  They took two large vials.   I have been tested by a bazillion blood tests and had blood sent to ELISA and was told I had no antibodies years ago.  Just another case of  Fobbed off again.  Not everyone gets a positive diagnosis especially if they are already considered progressive and with no good treatment.   I have four possibles, including a "tiny Dawson's discovered" report, and MRI's separated by almost 10 years that the CC said showed demyelination that didn't change much.  I was doing ok with herbals until I lost some eyesight, now I wish I had pushed sooner for answers about the lesions that can plainly be seen.  

[stargazerv_2000]

http://www.multiple-sclerosis-abc.org/evo/msmanu/927.htm

Most info and largest paper I can find on Dawson's Fingers.  First noticed by James Dawson, then researched by Carswell, then this research paper by Snellen.  Lots of info on Dawson's and MS.  

stargazer

[burbanchick]

Will do!

Sorry, I haven't made it off the first page yet!

I'll get back to you about them asap!

~Burban-c

[burbanchick]

I thought it sounded strange!  That's why I brought it up!  Sometime wikipedia can be great, other times not so much.  I really wish I had the access to all those great sites that you have as a physician...I tried to google it but all I got was a bunch of dawson's creel propaganda!  

As for your request on telling the difference between strokes, ms and vascilitis on MRI, I have not seen that yet, point me in the direction of it and I'll check it out!

~Burban-c

[Quixotic1]

Uh, no.  though it might be one description, I've seen Dawson's Fingers described as the finger-like pattern on the MRIs of patients with lost of classic MS lesions.  The "fingers" radiate outward from the ventricles, following the vascular paths.  When I read about it, I inferred that it was characteristic of the pattern seen in MS.  Interesting.  When I can read better, I'll do some more reading.  I think that's what Lyn understood , too - the MS connection.

Did you see my request for you to tell us a little about the different ways microangiopathy, strokes, MS and vasculitis looks on MRI?

Quix