After being cured from Chronic Renal Failure - convalescence and related problems

[francoise_peace]

Discuss about cat convalescence after having being cured from CRF.

Hello, my 19yo cat cured from CRF, but I'll have to continue treatment. And I don't know if after being cured, if she shall continue treatment or not, because usually cats don't get cured of CRF.

She'll soon re-start her treatment: Renalzin + Probiavi probiotics, Renalzin made her Phosphorus get lower and the probiotics made her Urea get lower, and both made the Creatinine get back to normal levels:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/waterreedshimmer/4970322673/

- I don't know if it's good to wait for her probiotics to arrive before re-start ?
- I don't know if low urea is dangerous ?
- I don't know if low phosphorus is dangerous ?
- I don't know if there is something in her kidney that didn't cure ?

Renalzin = Lanthanum carbonate (Human Renalzin in France is called Fosrenol, but you must have the same medicine with another name in UK and USA)

Probiavi contains =

Pediococcus Acidophilus
Bifido lactis
Bifido Longdum
Lactobacillus Acidophillus
Streptococcus Thermophilus
S.Cervisiae (yeast)
FOS (Fructo oligo sacharide)
And a little dextrose (food grade)

And there is also another problem, I pass my time trying to contact a researcher that can tell me if it is possible that one of her probiotics bacteria has mutated into one that can cure cat kidney cancer or contains a new virus that can cure CRF ? And I also think that if such bacteria or virus exists, it comes from Canada and it travels in USA through Psyllium Husk that are prebiotics, that means food for bacteria. But I still did not have a positive answer from any researcher. It is important because cure for CRF, or at least mega toxin eater that lowers Urea, cannot be into a volatil compound that has not been identified and whose presence depends on luck.

If there isn't such mutated bacteria nor virus, it's only the treatment that worked. Some humans also can cure from it.

I also have no vet knowledge and am a simple pet owner.

[francoise_peace]

http://www.royalcanin.co.uk/vet/clinical_diets/feline_clinical_diets/gastro-intestinal_mod_cal_wet.aspx

So I bought the Science Hills K/D thanks to family participation. But I've also ordered on my side Gastro-Intestinal Moderate Calorie Wet, it should arrive tomorrow. I'll try to convince family to give it to her during a week, so that I hope her gastro-intestinal problems will decrease. I don't want her to die of colitis, it'll be absurde.

I hope they pick the one for the cat, and I hope not to get stolen, and I hope it'll really arrive tomorrow morning.

I had enough of not being able to do something for her !

America is right: you have money, you have health, you have a bank account, you have money ! Really #### !!!

[francoise_peace]

Finally she'll stay with Science Hills K/D wet, family is agains't trying another food. I would have tried Royal Canin Renal with Beef.

It's such a worry when they have diarrhea. But it passed. She ate, she's OK.

[francoise_peace]

Compared with mature:

http://www.royalcanin.co.uk/PDF/neutered_mature.pdf
10+ Protein - FAT = 25
http://www.hillspet.com/products/sd-feline-minced-gourmet-turkey-entree-mature-adult-7plus-canned.html
7+ Protein - FAT = 14,4

Compared with other condition:

http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-feline-dd-feline-skin-support-duck-formula-canned.html
d/d Protein - FAT = 9
http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-feline-ld-feline-hepatic-health-canned.html
l/d Protein - FAT = 8,4
http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-feline-zd-feline-ultra-allergen-free-canned.html
z/d Protein - FAT = 15,5

Relativity in all :)

[francoise_peace]

Hypothesis: High Fat causes diarrhea

Fat comparision for wet:

Protein -minus(-)- FAT % =
K/D can (actual) = 1,9
K/D Pouches = 1,5
Royal Canin Tuna Pouch = 3,8
Royal Canin Beef Pouch = 4,1
Royal Canin Chicken Pouch = -6
Royal Canin Alutray = 4,4
Integra Protect Renal = -4,72
Eukanuba Renal = -24 ?!

So the best is:
Royal Canin Alutray = 4,4
Royal Canin Beef Pouch = 4,1
Royal Canin Tuna Pouch = 3,8
http://www.royalcanin.co.uk/PDF/renal_with_tuna_and_beef_feline.pdf

And avoid negatives:
Royal Canin Chicken Pouch = -6
Integra Protect Renal = -4,72
Eukanuba Renal = -24 ?! (Protein 25% Fat 49% Carbohydrate 26%)

(OK this is really bad publicity........)

[francoise_peace]

3 november 2010, she did 2 big, hard, brown, consistent, with no smell, normal looking (====) and one small, then diarrhea. I think it is IBS because she forced for the 2 first ones.

[francoise_peace]

I'll post a new post on december, when I'll have her new blood analysis. Target is still: get levels back to normal. But even if CRF levels get back to normal, damages are there, and can't get back to normal.

This is relativity. Blood levels says if treatment is treating symptoms. If treatment is treating disease, this we cannot know. All CRF symptoms can be treated. But disease can't be treated yet. CRF BUN blood levels are tricky, if treatment isn't working, you have the actual state of the cat's kidney, if treatment is working on symptoms, it only says symptoms aren't there, but the disease is there, and requires a medicine that treats it without only treating the symptoms.

Probiotics can lower UREA if they contain Kibow Biotics:
S.thermophilus(KB19), L.acidophilus (KB27) and B.longum (KB31)
http://www.kibowbiotech.com/biotics.php

But we don't need to have the trademark Kibow Biotics to have the good bacterias. Plenty of probiotics trademarks contains them like Probiavi, Mercola, Sedona... Cat can be given human or pet probiotics. Just make sure the probiotics trademark is known so it isn't junk. And it is very good when you have CFU/g per spoon or per powder bottle. It is important to have above 2 billion.

Probiotics are safe because they don't have side effects. But giving too much can cause constipation, in my own pet owner opinion. And it can contains extra substances that might not be good for your car, like mold when it is refrigerated or additives. I think FOS is safer then microcrystalline cellulose (plant extract). Psyllium Husk additive is considered by vets as safe also, but it isn't considered that safe for human. FOS, cellulose and Psyllium are prebiotics wich is food for Probiotics that are alive bacterias that need food for not starving.

Phosphate binder like RENALZIN can lower phosphorus wich lowers Kidney function wich lowers UREA.

By lowering UREA, CREATININE gets lower and can get back to normal. If CREATININE in CRF cat is normal, than must be seen as a relativity phenomenon. CREATININE can be normal but Kidney is still damaged and is still necrosing. Only process of necrosing is very very small OR is occuring at normal speed but is related to something else than CREATININE. So blood levels aren't true test.

If you manage to lower UREA and CREATININE at normal levels, you won't know what is going on.

Vet can also lower other symptoms like nausea wich is caused by uremia even if UREA is normal, and stimulate cat's appetite. And neutralise all of the CRF symptoms like CONSTIPATION, DIARRHEA, HUNGER, THIRST, VOMITING, NAUSEA, etc... But even if symptoms are neutralised, the disease is there, and TREATMENT MUST CONTINUE THE SAME AS IF CAT HAD NOT CURED.

A lot of people can make there cat stay alive with junk food that contains by-products like Fancy Feast, for over 3-4 years. Some people can also, if cat eats, make CRF cat stay alive for 1-5 years with specific renal food like Science Hills K/D. And some people have the same results with natural balanced food without by-products and with plenty of innovative ecological food ideas.

Food choice influence 2 things: 1) Health 2) Kidney condition. If food acts very well on Health or on Kidney, than your cat will live longer. But food cannot help both Health or Kidney. I'll advise:
Science Hills K/D wet for old cats. Because they don't move that much and they don't need so much proteins. But the cat must eat at normal quantities. CRF food is often related with ANOREXIA.
I never tried, but since high quality food seems to stimulate health and long living in younger cats that need proteins, I think healthy food would be advised for young cats with CRF. But high quality food might DAMAGE more kidney than CRF food because of digestibility, phosphorus and proteins.

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About stimulating apetite, I have bought all of this:
- a small strainer (passoire in French /  ment for cooking)
- a mini-casserole in the pan (ment for human cooking)
- a hard iron spoon (ment for human eating with it)
- a baby plate (ment for human eating on it)
- a baby bowl (ment for human eating on it)
- empty biggest size syringues (vet or pharmacy sells them, ask a pack of 10 syringues)
- aluminium paper (ment for human food)
- low mineralized water (written: advised for kidney function and seniors)
- CRF food (or a trusted high quality food if you think your cat kidney can handdle it)
- paper towels / or tissue towels for frequent use

The wet canned food is kept in the refrigerator OUTSIDE can, in the BABY BOWL covered with ALUMINIUM PAPER. It is dangerous to keep canned food inside CANS because can gives bacterias that can kill in a day like BOTULISM.

As CRF food my cat takes tree times a day a big SPOON of Science Hills K/D wet mixed with water.

So I take the K/D wet out of fridge, I put it in a mini-casserole, I add LOW-MINERALIZED WATER in the food, and TAP WATER for bain-marie in the pan, at a level where I can take out the miini-casserole.

Heating food in bain-marie is safe and stimulate cat's appetite because it's hotter and it smells better.

Than I pass the food with the HARD IRON SPOON in the SMALL STRAINER, so that the food will be liquid. It all falls in the baby plate.

It is important that wet food becomes liquid, with STRAINER or ROBOT, so that it doesn't SPLASH  on the cat and on the walls when you give her/him the food syringue.

Than I put the medicine in food:
- Morning: probiotics 1/8 to 1/4 of Mercola's Spoon, I suppose it is 0,6 to 2mg, anyway it's less than a pinch to a pinch.
- Noon: 2 pomps of Renalzin (you can also give 2*2 Renalzin in a day if cat is in bad condition with phosphorus)
- Night: 1/2 Fortekor.
Cat medication can change, according to what vet prescribes and to what you think it's better to him. But please always check each molecule in a bottle.

Make sure with SPOON everything is liquid and put in the EMPTY SYRINGUE (without the nail of course, because the syringue is like a baby bottle).

You can give 1 to 3 syringues of food (8-24mg) mixed with water. I'll recommend 2 syringues (16mg) per meal three times a day, but it depends on the cat size. And it will be so good if vets could give us the REAL FOOD AND WATER QUANTITY IN SYRINGUE that a CRF cat that doesn't eat should be GIVEN ?

Put two paper towels under the cat, the syringue on the left or right side of the cat's mouth, and give slowly the food, for th cat to eat while breathing. If the food is liquid enough, there won't be big splashes, and the cat will be less dirty.

Then clean the cat's mouth with humid towel.

I really think the small strainer will have a future in cleaning issues with feedind cat with syringue-bottle.