:(
I posted a 8euros question on Just Answers, but you can also answer it:
Hello my cat has CRF and is often having diarrhea. Today it's the 3rd or 4th time she has one and she has only have eated Science Hills K/D. I wanted to but IVD Royal Canin Grean Peas and Duck but vet disagreed because they don't know it and she has CRF diet.
I want to know what food I can buy online (I live in France) for my cat to be able to eat something that won't cause a diarrhea reaction. She never had diarrhea with K/D. In the past after having finished 12 Science Hills mature Turkey, she became "allergic to it", having serious diarrhea anytime she tries it. Now she is having by myself Mercola Complete Probiotics for pets, because I know probiotics are good for diarrhea. But because she is psychologically traumatised with this diarrhea thing, it has been one month she stopped eating by herself. I'm giving her K/D in seringue through mouth. But she looks physically well since I feed her about 3 times a day. I want to know, what cat food would you give her - and she is over 19yo:
Kattovit
- Gastro (pheasant, duck)
- Sensitive (fish)
- Low Protein (Sea Fish)
Integra Protect
- Intestinal (with by-products but for diarrhea)
- Sensitive (Turkey and potato)
- Natural Balance green peas and duck
"you can also substitute cooked Egg Whites for a portion of the meat as a source of protein", I can't do nothing at home, don't have the permission.
"using eggshell powder as an oral phosphate binder to balance phosphorous levels in the meat", good idea, but can't do it.
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### Royal Canin Vet Exclusive Vet diet GREEN PEAS & DUCK FORMULA ###
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can't do neither, vet say, stay with K/D, avoid proteins.
Right now she isn't strong enough with the low protein diet. That's why I don't like it.
But she's getting back to her old habits, except for dry food, because she is still not strong enough to eat it by herself and she doesn't like dry K/D.
Mercola complete probiotics for pets (dogs and cats) have arrived, but I'm giving her less than prescription on the bottle (>>1g), because the one before, Probiavi's, said only 0.8mg, and I'm giving her 0.4mg, small pinch, less than salt pinch.
Indeed probiotics have in immediate effect and I think they could cause constipation. The brown thing is more compact and smells more, just like for the previous probiotics. But on the other hand the new probiotics are more complete and are going to stimulate her health in several places.
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So it's:
Morning:
syringue: K/D Science Hills Wet
syringue: 4ml of low mineralised water with 0.4mg of Mercola Probiotics
Noon:
syringue: K/D Science Hills Wet
syringue: 2 pomps of Renalzin as phosphate binder
Night:
syringue: K/D Science Hills Wet + 1/2 Fortekor 2.5"
Cat milk (Whiskas) by herself, she likes it.
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I don't trust very much cat milk, I'm afraid it could gave her renal calculus like oxalate with the calcium and the vitamin D, but I'm not an expert and I don't know.
Can cat milk give renal calculus ?
hi Franc...I wouldn't really trust a study done by a Pet food company,they would tend to be biased.
From holistic sources I've read.
Low protein diets can do harm to cats including ones with declining kidney function, this can exacerbate muscle wasting.
Recent studies have shown keeping phosphorous levels in check slows down progression of kidney failure.
The challenge is that a cats diet consists of meat which is naturally high in phosphorous, Feed meats that are lower in phosphorous such as good quality turkey or chicken rather than beef.
High quality turkey or chicken NOT by-products......you can also substitute cooked Egg Whites for a portion of the meat as a source of protein.
You can do some research on using eggshell powder as an oral phosphate binder to balance phosphorous levels in the meat, apparantly the Japanese have done some studies into this, see if you can find something published.
good luck with the continued search for answers.
♥Opus
I hope the vet is opened:
http://www.catsofaustralia.com/cat-kidney-disease.htm
"You may have heard that restricting protein is recommended for cats in kidney failure. Although this has been the "standard" treatment for decades, as far as cats are concerned, it has always been--and remains--very controversial. According to experts at Colorado State University's veterinary teaching hospital, restricted protein does not prevent kidney failure in a healthy cat, and has no effect on the ultimate progression of renal disease. Research also shows that even very high protein diets do not make renal failure worse in cats (although high protein does worsen the disease in dogs and humans). (One pet food maker recently completed a study it claims shows that its restricted-protein diet increases lifespan in CRF cats. However, because the study has not yet been published, it is impossible to evaluate the data, which is contradicted by other research.) The real culprit is actually phosphorus, which meat contains in large amounts. Decreasing phosphorus intake (by restricting protein) can help some cats feel better, so it may be worth a try in a symptomatic cat.
However, some studies have suggested that excessive restriction of protein may actually cause further damage to the kidneys and other organs, because there is not enough protein for normal body maintenance and repair. Experts say that these diets are not appropriate until the BUN (Blood Urea Nitrogen) is at least double what it should be normally (about 60-80 mg/dl). "
Conclusion:
Science Hills 7+ food is bad for 19yo cat: dry is too big and wet irritates bowel.
Science Hills K/D wet is good for 19yo cat: it protects both kidney with low protein and low phosphorus and bowel with psyllium husk that aids both diarrhea and constipation.
After 18yo, cats should eat something that is usefull for both kidney values and stomach & bowel sensitivity. Because they all get CRF and all suffer from various digestion problems (exigent/allergic/sensitive cats, constipation, diarrhea, IBS...) probably due to cereals (maize, etc.) and due to existence of several animal protein sources mixed together (chicken+pig+fish+beef+...). But this kind of food wasn't invented yet.
My cat had two diarrheas due to food changing, it could have killed her if I wasn't there with her all day. Last time she begin eating by herself, but not this time. She was having Virbac vitamin paste and Whiskas cat milk (for proteins and because she isn't allergic to it because it is a specific cat milk), but today, 5 days later (no it's not good to wait that much), she had in the morning white fish mixed with her vitamin paste, and now she just had Science Hills K/D wet in syringe in her mouth. She likes the taste of Science Hills K/D wet (but not of the dry) although she preferred Science Hills 7+ wet that wasn't good for her. I hope she'll get her strength back.
When cat is not eating, empty syringe can be bought either in pharmacy either at vet's. Buy 10 of them of the biggest ones because you can put wet pet food + water inside. And throw out the nail, because you use it as baby bottle. I already had from last cat.
Now for the diarrhea, from now on, as long as we don't have the new IBS food:
- Virbac vitamin paste
- Whiskas cat milk
- Hills renal K/D wet (because she didn't have no problems with it)
+ medicine for CRF: Renalzin to lower phosphorus and Fortekor for protein absorption.
About Fortekor, she wasn't eating the dry food, so she wasn't eating it, but I'm going to mix it to wet K/D tonight.
About Renalzin, now that she's having syringue, if necessary to continue forcing, she'll have it not on mouth but mixed with morning wet food.
About syringue, it works next to mouth, like a baby bottle, let her eat the food that goes out little by little and stop sometimes for better mastication/chewing and respiration. And it's important that wet food is liquid (ex: knead with wood kneader if no robot) and mixed with low mineralized water. Also important to put cleaning tissues/paper around the cat.
Today I couldn't order new wet food because of transport strike. Vet was closed. I don't know if I did a good choice but next she'll have:
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### Royal Canin Vet Exclusive Vet diet GREEN PEAS & DUCK FORMULA ###
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Because it's the one that (unless I compared too fast) has less phosphorus and a little bit less proteins and suggests an animal that a cat could hunt. But I'm not sure if protein levels are OK or too elevated for CRF?
Indications:
(...)
Adverse food reactions which may present with the following
gastrointestinal signs:
• Vomiting
• Diarrhea
• Inflammatory bowel disease
Additional Differences:
Enriched with antioxidants to help maintain a healthy immune system and to reduce DNA damage associated with aging.
Notes:
• No other protein sources should be made available while feeding ROYAL CANIN Veterinary Diet® feline GREEN PEAS & DUCK FORMULA™ dry or DUCK FORMULA™ in gel can
---> She never ated duck, why don't they do chicken or fish ?
Selected Protein:
The protein in the diet is provided by green
peas and duck, which are rarely associated
with adverse food reactions in cats
Skin Barrier: +++++++++++++++++++++ good for CRF
Optimal amounts of B vitamins and amino acids
help reduce transepidermal water losses and
strengthen the barrier effect of the skin
EPA and DHA:
Eicosapentaenoic and docosahexaenoic acids are
long chain omega-3 fatty acids that promote a
healthy skin and coat
Natural Preservative: Naturally preserved
Ingredients of Royal Canin canned food for IBS (Irritated Bowel Syndrom):
ROYAL CANIN Veterinary Diet® feline DUCK FORMULA™ in gel can
Water sufficient for processing, duck, duck by-products, pea flour, pea protein,
natural flavors, fish oil, carrageenan, calcium sulfate, potassium citrate, cassia
gum, Vitamins [L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), niacin
supplement, DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), biotin, D-calcium
pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), pyridoxine hydrochloride
(vitamin B6), riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), vitamin B12 supplement,
folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement], taurine, vegetable oil, choline chloride, Trace
Minerals [zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, iron sulfate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide,
sodium selenite, calcium iodate], marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.).
Ingredients of Science Hills canned food for CRF (Chronic Renal Failure)
Water, Pork Liver, Chicken, Pork By-Products, Brewers Rice, Oat Fiber, Corn Starch, Glucose, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Potassium Citrate, Psyllium Seed Husk, Guar Gum, Calcium Carbonate, Fish Oil, Calcium Sulfate, DL-Methionine, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Iodized Salt, Vitamin E Supplement, L-Cysteine, Glycine, Thiamine Mononitrate, Ascorbic Acid (source of vitamin C), Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Niacin, Beta Carotene, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, Sodium Selenite.
So I hope sometimes a society will invent CRF + IBS food with perhaps a little more proteins than IBS food, but not too much, all the hydratation qualities of IBS and all the mineral balance of CRF.
And I'm OK with psyllium husk as a prebiotic, but not as a bowel treatment. Besides psyllium husk can help to lower BUN in some way in my opinion.
I have choosed: http://www.royalcanin.us/cats/Veterinary_Diets.aspx
GREEN PEAS & DUCK FORMULA
The only problem is high protein, but I think she needs some. Now where to buy it? I think I'll go to the vet.
RENAL LP
Protein g 55.2 56.0
Fat g 72.8 67.5
Crude Fiber g 1.5 5.8
Total Dietary Fiber g 4.9 13.2
Carbohydrate g 42.9 54.0
Calcium g 2.4 1.8
Phosphorus g 0.8 0.8
Sodium g 0.5 0.7
Chloride g 0.7 0.9
Potassium g 2.0 2.3
Magnesium g 0.2 0.1
x
GREEN PEAS & DUCK FORMULA
Protein g 87.5 102.6
Fat g 36.3 61.2
Crude Fiber g 8.3 3.4
Total Dietary Fiber g 31.5 7.5
Carbohydrate g 92.6 21.5
Calcium g 3.6 2.8
Phosphorus g 3.6 2.2
Sodium g 1.9 1.2
Chloride g 1.5 1.3
Potassium g 2.1 2.4
Magnesium g 0.3 0.2