hi you guys...my husband is here visiting the baby....they are in the living room and i am cooking turkey wings in the kitchen..watching tv...and of course talking to you guys. you all know how the intake went.....he starts his program on monday.
i can tell that he likes being here...with us....it is so hard. i am pretty quiet...just doing my own thing while they visit. it is like there is this pink elephant in the room. i am not sure how to be with him....i know he wants us to be together...but there is just so much going on.
a friend of mine today told me to just keep things simple and not read into everything..day by day. if he is here to visit his son...let it be that. if he wants a turkey wing, let him have one. you know?
i feel like i am "trying to build a house" all the time. you know? but i feel like if i am not....then i am "caving" or being weak.
i do love him very much you guys....i do. i cant pretend like i dont....even after all he has done. just being honest.
Of course you love him. There's no instruction book about this kind of thing, how you should definitely be, what you should do exactly...sometimes you need to go with your gut.
Think about what YOU really want; what you would like. Seriously, if you'd like him to be at home, which is normal, make that happen. It doesn't make you a doormat or an enabler. It's just normal...not foolish.
Just go with your gut, Sweetie. It's not wrong to have him at home. Think about it and talk it over with your therapist, maybe...
when i talked to my therapist vicki she told me that no matter what happens i am not a doormat. she told me i was a warrior. she said that you had your boundaries and stood firm....rehab, transparency, stop drinking, and counseling...were a must. nothing has changed..and she is right. i will not back down on any of that. i wont....for me. my husband cannot come home if he doesnt do those things....and that is just the way it has to be....if we are to ever really have a marriage...you know?
my son fell asleep on his chest on the couch..they are both sleep...i just gave them a blanket.
rehab begins on monday....family rehab day is on wednesday.
i have stayed out of his email...you were right about that.
it is difficult when it is the 3 of us...with my son running around yelling dada....and mama....needing us both....and my husband fully engaged....wanting to be here....in this space....it is hard when we are all eating..and it is loud, messy...the baby demanding both of our attention....you can imagine the scene, right?
For one thing, if he's at home, you will definitely know if he's not drinking, being transparent, going to IOP, and being counseled. Those are the rules and you shouldn't back down on them. Does that mean he has to stay away until he's completed all of it? We never truly finish our recovery, we work on it every single day...
I don't mean to push you to this position, I just want to point out the flip side(or his side) of all this. Also, and I'll try to word this the best way I can, it's normal/natural to be at home. Right now his living situation is up side down and while he's attempting to straighten out his life, living with his brother is not normal...so his base is off.
What I'm trying to say is think about this from both sides and just examine the reasons why he's not there and look at what he's doing to get there...
I'm thinking his baby visits are as gut wrenching for you as well as for him and it makes me wonder if that's healthy. Remember, all of this is about getting healthy (both of you) and as much as you've changed, he's changing too.
Just think about it in terms of better mental health and see where those thoughts take you... I KNOW this is hard. xoxo
I think one of the BIGGEST reasons you're always feeling so conflicted is because you're just OVER thinking every little thing, which of course, is normal, but you're driving yourself nuts. I agree witth your friend completely.
I also agree you need to sort of go with your gut. You're so worried about "caving". Caving would be running into his arms, and letting him move back, whether the conditions were met or not. You KNOW you're not going to do that, hon!
Just be polite, be a good hostess, as you would to anyone in your home. If you're making dinner, offer him some, but don't go out of your way to make his fave meal, with candles...ya know? The stuff that you would consider "caving" you're not going to do.
Have normal conversations with him, you don't have to be the ice queen, but yet, you're not going to be all warm and fuzzy either. Pretty much what you've been DOING seems awfully normal for me. Try not to read so much into every little thing. Just let go a little of that feeling of having to be in control of every tiny thing, it's not possible. You're in control of the things that are important. Try to loosen up a little bit.
Find some hobbies, busy yourself with some things...join a "Mommy and me" kind of group with your son, where you can meet other Moms that you could maybe have play dates with. You're letting this situation completely consume your life. It's okay that it's going to take up most of your thoughts, but by getting busy, distraction will allow you to get a mental break from all of this.
You're doing JUST fine. Being NICE to him as a guest in your home, and as the father of your child is not some sign of weakness. Big hugs!
I haven't read the past post, but I too have just went through that about a year ago. My husband was incarcerated on other charges when I found out. He was taking the rent and utilities money getting it and I was sooo much in debt. And to top it off he was not here to help, yell at, or so forth. While being incarcerated he found out it was killing him slowly!!!
Once he got out we talked about it, but have not been to counseling yet. I feel we need to go because after a year I still have haunting memories about the entire situation which sometimes cause us to argue. I have forgiven him but it's hard to get the trust started back.
I ask him to talk about it to me. How it made him feel. When he had urges to do it so I could support him. I have firmly told him if he EVER uses again our marriage is OVER. I'm here now and trying to be his support to conquer this addiction. Cocaine is a terrible addiction to break but it's possible. Good luck to us both!!
thank you guys for the support....i came back here several time to read, learn, and take comfort in your honest words. i know you will always give it to me straight...and i am so grateful for that. he is here to see the baby again....he did the laundry...bought groceries...and took the day off work to watch our baby who is sick with a cold/asthma while i worked at home...i am a computer analyst so i work from home. he took the day off so that i didnt have to take the baby to daycare.
they are asleep again on the couch.
anyway....just wanted to check in.
i have found that when he visits the baby....cooking is my escape. i try to make something really interesting...with a lot of steps so that i "have something to do."
funny how we used to sit up and talk for hours...about everything...and on a night like this...friday...we always had the weekend planne.
now...we barely say anything to each other...unless it is about the baby. it seems like the only way he can "communicate" to me is if he is helping me around the house or something. same here...i cant talk unless it is about the baby, or bills.
makingachange....thank you so much for sharing your story...it really helped to hear what you had to say. the betrayal runs deep...very deep. it literally rocks your whole world. i hope you continue to posts. maybe we can find comfort in each other....i know i have from the other people who follow this thread.
Just checking in:)
I agree with everyone above...this has turned into a really nice support group:)
I think that it's really good that you are feeling your love for him...and it's definitely ok to inject a little more normalcy into your lives...it will help you get through this long journey you still have ahead of you. You are not the same person that you were at the beginning of all of this. You were a different person when you found everything out, and then you were a different person when you started posting here, and now you have changed even more as you continue to post, and as you have gone through therapy, and as life has progressed over the last few months. You have learned and changed for the better at each step along the way. If you look back at your original posts, you had a totally different way of thinking....you were questioning yourself and your thoughts, instincts, etc. You also did not know a lot about addiction. You have grown to become so strong, and you are really an inspiration for us all. I tell you this, because I don't think you need to be afraid of "caving". Maybe a few months ago, you would have done it, and maybe you would have compromised your requirements, but now you will not.
So it's ok to start feeling again a little. You have your guard up, but it doesn't have to be a wall. I'm not saying that you should stop being cautious....because of course you will continue to take things slowly, and you are not deciding on your marriage as of right now. But you can love him, and work on your relationship slowly as friends or co-parents. It will help both of you heal...because no matter what happens in the end--with your marriage---you both need to heal.
Just continue to progress as you are comfortable. As treatment begins, don't be surprised if both your and your husband's emotions are like roller-coasters...there is a lot of work and learning about his addiction, and himself, that will be very hard for him. And the family day will be very hard for you....and the other days will be very hard for you too depending on how he progresses. There will be good days and probably bad days. But communication will slowly get better. You will eventually feel more comfortable talking about things other than bills and household things.
Your strength and resolve is what got both of you to this point...you should be proud. You are going to be fine...and as treatment begins this week, we'll be here to help you through it:)
You're an incredible gal, a good friend, a fabulous mother, and a loving partner. Your have educated yourself on the disease of addiction and have suggested further the rehab that can save your husband's life and your son's father's life. You have dealt with your in-laws like a champ, all of this AND you're learning to become a better cook. You are helping immensely on Medhelp, and other family's of addicts, and allowing other addicts to help you , which helps us. You have accomplished so much. Enjoy the fruits of your labors. You can not go back after your eyes have been opened, as they have been. You do not need to constantly worry that you will cave, because i don't think that it's possible for that to happen to you either. Please Miller, enjoy the fruits of your labors, as much as your instinct tells you to. Your instinct has got you both this far. Trust yourself to look after yourself and your son. Nobody's going to mess with you again. I couldn't agree more Miller, YOU ARE A WARRIOR!!!!
We will all be with you in the coming week of treatment, and in the coming months to come. You will never be alone in all of this again. We all care so much for such a wonderful young mother and wife. You are an inspiration to us all!!!
thank you...i feel so much support here...how did i ever find this site? i am so grateful that i did! i wish i could tell everyone on the other support group site to come here...i know they would be so grateful as well.
you guys are right...things are different my husband has been out of this house at his brothers for 2 months...and i never called him or begged him back ...like i did the last time. my boundaries are set in stone...and i have not waivered. the last time...it was ME trying to convince him to come home...when he was the one who did wrong. not this time. i asked him the other day, why he felt as though he deserved to come...why he deserved someone like me? different story this time. i have to keep telling myself that. i guess for the last few months, i just got so used to not talking to him....and not taking any crap...to protect myself and stay true to my boundaries and self worth.
"i dont deserve you...but i am getting myself together so that i do deserve it. before all of this BS i created, i was a good man. i was good, and faithful to you. i took care of you..as a man i financially provided for my family. i was your bestfriend...and i have always loved you with all my heart. i was a good father...i cooked, cleaned, helped you around the house, was a supportive husband about your career, vacations..movies. i want to come back a good man again. a better man. you deserve a man to be faithful to you. i am done with that life. i deserve it because i have come to realize what is really important...and all there is for me out here is my wife and son."
that is pretty much what he said. i didnt respond when he said it. and when i didnt, he said that he understands that his words mean nothing..it is about his actions. he is right about that..words mean nothing.
one thing i wanted to mention....in 12 years...yes 12 years...i dont think i have ever seen my husband not drinkng...at least one beer, you know? it is odd to see it. i am not used to it. when i cooked me and the baby some speghetti, and offered him some..i noticed it because he always would have a drink..of some kind...mostly beer.
that was a boundary for me. i dont want to be around who i am in a relationship with who drinks alcohol. i dont drink, and i dont want to be with anybody who drinks. that's just where i am with that. my mom was a drunk when i was growing up...and she gave it up...and hasnt drank in years. i could always tell when she had a sip of liquor. i hated it. and i guess, now that my husband's drinking has also created so many problems...i dont want that in my life either. when my mom drank, i would not talk to her. i dont want that around me ever again. my husband drinks...which triggers cocaine desires...which leads to a bunch of other crap...i am done with that.
there is no liquor in my home and i want to keep it that way. this is a dry house. i have no problem with him staying gone if that is not acceptable to him,
Did he ask for a drink/beer? No. You're just saying that out because it's a boundary now. I don't blame you.
It sounds like he hears you loud and clear and he understands and accepts the deal. The boundaries are strict and I believe, in choosing to accept them, his intentions are honest. I think he's as serious as you've wanted him to be. What do you think?
one thing i have learned from all of you is that "only time will tell." i do think he knows i am serious...this is NOT like the last time. i mean....so much has happend to him....we have been separated...and gosh...he even went to jail. wow. that was one thing the intake lady said in the meeting with the both of us. she said that when things start to get out of control, and substance abuse is a factor, then it is time to get help....she said...see your marriage is in shambles...you have cheated, you have been to jail...a lot has happend.
yes..this is a whole new ball game. i hope that he does see that i am not playing. i cant play this time...i have to be strong for both me and my son...even him. in a way.
the other thing i noticed is that the phone is no where in sight. he has not been on the phone...at least not in front of me. i have not heard any mention of his friends, going out....that phone ringing, him texting....nothing. and that is different. and you know there is no more mancave...the only thing in there now is my suv. and that is different....no where to "hide." it is all out in the open. so when he is here....he stays in the living room. i also have not heard a word about that gym...you know the one where the yoga/stripper works. not a peep. i think he got that message loud and clear.
he asked me today if it was okay if he visited the baby while he watched the game. they watched it together...and i have never seen my husband watch a game of any kind without a beer. never.
i realize now that he wants to be here...this is true, but i think it is more than that...him being here all the time is him trying to "show" me that he is trying. with him here, he can show me that he is not drinking, not going out....that he is helpful....a good father....and not cheating...at least i think he is trying to show me that by being present....and physcially here.
what i find hard sometimes...is the fact that he cant really look me in the face.....nor can i...when we do....it is hard.
one thing i have learned about all of this...is that family really has nothing to do with your marriage. they have zero place in the marriage. i learned this the hard way. they have never liked me....and vice versa....just very toxic, nosy people. a lot of it was allowed by my husband. they all worked really hard to make me out to be the bad guy in all of this. for example...his brother made a comment to me..."he was never doing coke when he lived with me!" that kind of thing...they blame me, and enable him. they all told him that i was trying to send him back to jail...or take his son from him...everyone was in his "ear" and in a bad way when it came to me...and he was right there listening to them..that is that betrayal i talk about...when he bailed and left home to go and stay with them. i say this because at the end of the day...nothing, and i mean nothing that they had to say to him meant anything. i remember his aunt telling me...."you will never get rudy back!" at the time i was hurt and afraid...and then over time since he had been gone...i thought..."no wait...he should be worried about if he will get ME BACK." and that is where i am now wth that. but my point is that after all of that family drama...my husband is right back here...trying to get home to me and his baby. i have learned that in the future, if we are going to make it...we need to keep family out of the marriage, and keep the family business "in house." that is somethign that i will want to address if/when we ever make it to marriage counseling. it is important. family boundaries are important.
but since he has been here visiting....i have not heard one word about his family at all.
I'm so glad to hear that you and Rudy are continuing to prove to one another hands on that sobriety is the norm now. He is trying to show you by physically that he can handle sobriety as you've said, but mostly when an addict is clean and sober they want to be with their children and spouses more than anything in the world. When the draw of addiction (cravings, detox) fade and the triggers are removed (using friends, dealers numbers) it's natural to just want to be "home". Everybody needs a family, and Rudy knows that you are his.
I'm so sorry that you two are finding it hard to look each other in the eye. Of course that would be an issue when so much has happened. He feels so much guilt because of what he's done, you may feel a bit of shame because you allowed yourself to be treated badly when you found out about the affair. Through therapy you're learning to leave the past in the past. So honey, I will be praying for you, that you cant TRY TO TAKE A DEEP BREATH IN, HOLD IT , AND BREATHE OUT , AND IN AND HOLD, AND LOOK YOUR HUSBAND STRAIGHT IN THE EYE AND SMILE, TURN AWAY DO SOMETHING ELSE. THE NEXT TIME WILL BE EASIER. You haven't maybe helped Rudy, you've saved Rudy from himself. You've been the leader in the fight of his life. Please honey, continue to be that leader. Try to lighten the mood a bit yourself, for yourself and for Rudy and for the baby. All the while remembering that you know, your therapist knows, your husband knows, and we know, that you're NOT caving by simple gestures, like sharing a chuckle. You are simply acknowledging that you have both worked hard, and need a little bit of R&R, to relieve the stress of addictions.
Let him know slowly, surely , that it is a positive experience to get clean and sober., that's it's fun out here in the light, away from having to anesthetize yourself to enjoy life, a meal, a game. You're NOT caving honey. Don't worry about that, it's simply NOT the case. Learn to smile, and laugh again!! You can let your guard down that much, right? There is a time for tears, for talking, and there is a time for a smile, trust yourself that you're not going to let anything slide. Break the ice. Lift the veil.
To everything there is a season,
a time for every purpose under the sun.
A time to be born and a time to die;
a time to plant and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
a time to kill and a time to heal ...
a time to weep and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn and a time to dance ...
a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing;
a time to lose and a time to seek;
a time to rend and a time to sew;
a time to keep silent and a time to speak;
a time to love and a time to hate;
a time for war and a time for peace.
It took my husband and I a long time to really look at each other in the eye...to be able to have face time. It's a defence mechanism... when you look right at someone, it makes you vulnerable. It will take time...(as is pretty much the theme in all of this...it will all take time). Isn't the saying--"the eyes are the windows to the soul"? You are afraid to show him too much right now, and are still very guarded. He is full of shame. But you both love each other...so it will bet easier and you WILL get to the place where you can look at each other with ease...and really communicate without strain.
He wants to be there to show you these things you mentioned, but he also wants to be there because he WANTS to be there. You home NOW is where he has been able to start making some good decisions......he did not make any progress at any of his family's homes, he has made progress with YOU. He likely feels safest and most loved at home with you and the baby. It is a positive place for him, and a supportive place for him. YOU are the only one who has held him accountable, and YOU were the one that got him to where he is. His family did not get him there, and he knows this....and I think it is VITAL that you keep your relationship between the 2 of you and the marriage counsellor/therapists. BOTH of your families will have to be kept separate when you get through all of this....I know that YOUR family has been so supportive for you and for right now it's still smart to keep them close and involved, but if or when you do get to a better place with Rudy, it will be for the 2 of you to work on.
I need to ask you a question: What do you think the point is in keeping your husband out of the house? I'm not challenging you on this, I just want to know what you're thinking. What do you think it's accomplishing? And, is it working? There's no "right" answer here and if you don't want to answer its okay...I just wonder what your thoughts are and I think it needs to be talked about...
thanks optimus....i understand what you are saying. i guess it will take time. he keeps asking me if it is okay that he is here...."visiting the baby." and those visits turn into long stays....even if he is in the other room with the baby.
i can hardly look at him in the eye. he is here to see the baby...and guess what? both of them are really, really sick...i think they have a 24 hour stomach flu. they are both throwing up...and have the runs really bad. i feel fine. my husband is on the couch...and my baby is sleeping with me...poor thing...my baby...but his fever is down...and he is back to running all over the place...tearing the house down. but tonight, he did throw up all over the living room floor...and then ran back to playing with his toys.
vicki...wow...you asked me a question that caught me off guard...i had to go to the store and come back...to think about it. well, he is out of the house because he walked out on me and his family....he cheated on me...does drugs and was not going to be accountable...he left for a few months. now, he wants to make some changes. i guess, i feel like he needs to stay gone until he proves to me that he is serious about the changes...the boundares i put in place.
and from the advice that you guys have given me...it seemed like that was the best thing....you know...dont take him back into the house until he shows he is serious about his recovery....and not to put the marriage before him getting help. him coming back to the house would mean jus that, right? putting the marriage before rehab.
and honestly....i feel like i want to punish him. i do. i am being honest. i am still so upset with him. i feel like if i let him come home, then he will think he "got away" with something. i am torn because at the same time...what did he get away with? he was kicked out of the house...went to JAIL for a week, going to rehab...a lot has happend....but i feel too afraid to be that vulnerable with him again. like if i let him come home, then i am giving in...and i am afraid of that.
my therapist told me last week, that it wasnt healthy how i was approaching this. she said that it was manipulative and codependent to try to get him to do things with the hope that he will act diiferent....the way i want him to act. she said that i need to accept the fact that i am "not done" with him...and work from that....not from a position of codependence. she said that i need to think like this....
"i am obviously not going to end my marriage....period. be honest with myself first and foremost. my husband is a screw up and has a lot of issues that HE needs to work out. i do as well..my co dependence. but, if i am all in...and going to be with him, set the boundaries and the bar high...for me..so that i can live healthy....but dont kid myself, or play games trying to get him to act a certain way. i will lose everytime. you are a warrior trying to keep your family together...and there is something to be said for that. you are the strong one...the mother....the one holding it together. if he is trying....and you are not sacrificing yourself, or compromising your value and self worth, there is something to be said for keeping the marriage intact."
that was pretty much it in a nutshell.
so, i guess vicki...just being honest...i am trying to show him that i am not going to be a doormat. that he cant just screw up our lives and then just walk out...and think he can come back when "a light bulb goes off" in his head that me and the baby are what he really wants.
i am rambling...but i am afraid to let him come back. i dont want him to think that he can do this to me again.
i hope my rambling makes sense.
but i really did think that the consensus here was that he should not come back right now.
one other thing...he asked me tonight if i minded that he was here....it was so pathetic...and sad the way he asked me that. i told him no...it was nice for him to see the baby. i could not make it about me.
he asks me this whenever he is here.
night...thank you for sharing the wonderful passage from the bible...another one i am copying and pasting....you are a gem.
Okay. I just wanted to know what YOU were thinking. All situations are different because people are different and we all THINK differently. I already knew why he was gone, of course. I wanted to know why he wasn't back, in your words, and I wanted you to think about it...
The way you handle the living situation is entirely up to you. Being at home is the same as being in a marriage in your mind. I see that. You don't want to appear weak and like a doormat and you're really pissed off. I understand. I just wonder sometimes if keeping him out of the house will produce a positive result. That's all. And I wonder if by continuing the separation your are really "all in" as far as your support goes. I don't know, that's why I'm asking you. You don't have to answer...I'm just sharing my thoughts with you and being honest about what I think about when I read your words.
I admire and respect you very much and truly feel like I know you as, I'm sure, everyone here does. I hope the baby is better!
I think you're just sticking to your OWN conditions that you set. He JUST started making progress, and has only had ONE intake appointment for his recovery. I see what vicki is saying, but to bring him home now, IMO, would be too soon, you haven't worked through a lot of your OWN emotions yet as well.
I think he needs to really SHOW you he is serious about this, and show some progress before that discussion about him returning can even happen. I think you can be "all in" without letting him back in the home, ansd I think you've done a LOT.
You've let him see the baby whenever he wants, you've helped him take that first step to get professional help, and you stood by him when he went. I think you've done a lot. IMO, it's just way too soon to even begin thinking about that.
I think some time needs to go by, with you seeing he is going to stay committed to this process, and be SURE he's doing this because he really wants to get well, not just so he can come home, and I think some time needs to go by where your feelings aren't still so raw, and you're not as conflicted....that will come as you see his progress and are more convinced he is going to continue to fight for your family.
Even during the little visits, you tend to overanalyze everything, and you're hyperaware of your emotions, which to ME tells me that for him to move back in...you would feel like that 24/7. That would be stressful. Also, to be totally honest, he's damn lucky you're even giving him a CHANCE to reconcile with you, he hasn't EARNED the privledge of moving back in with you guys full time.
What he did was terrible, and I think you're being VERY giving by doing all you have done thus far....when the conditions are met, and you have started sorting through the emotional turmoil he's caused, you can start thinking about it. I think taking him back at this point would jeapordize the process...it would be easy to fall back into old habits, for both of you. We know how important it is for him to move back...he has to work for that, and IMO, not get a pass, just for the little progress he's made.
I absolutely think you're doing everything perfectly, there is no right or wrong answer.
"i appreciate you helping me around the house and with the baby. i am not exactly sure what you are trying to do. your actions have destroyed this family. i am not sure if you think that helping me with the baby by spending more time here simply makes that go away. it doesnt.
i deserve more than anyone lying, cheating on me, (whether it be intercourse, any inapproprite physical contact, sexting, meeting up with other women, flirting, being friends with any women, you name it.) see...that is where i am at....doesnt matter if you are high or drunk, or even agree...that lifestyle does not fit in my world and i will never allow anyone to disrespect me that way again....ever. "we're just friends", or "i work with her", or "i know her from such and such", or "i sell drugs to her", or "i know her from the gym"....none of that matters to me anymore. i will not have it. and certainly not from anyone trying to earn my trust, or live under the same roof as me.
and if that is "too much" or "over the top"...then so be it. i dont want to be with anyone who has a problem with that anyway. especially not my husband.
I realize that it may feel like home here....it should because i worked really hard to make it a home. i have for years...but you chose to try and "have your cake and eat it too," and then bail to your family when i put an end to the "double life" in this house....and when it was time to man up and be accountable about that phone.....again.
i will never allow you or any man to put his family/friends before me...ever again. the truth is....i couldnt care less about what your family thinks of me. i made that pretty clear to you and them when i told them to stay out of our business. all i care about is that YOU put this family first. what they say or think about me is none of my business...and i should be able to trust that YOU have my back, no matter what.
my boundaries have not changed...at all. if anything, i feel even more stronger about them, more convicted. i would never consider reconcilation with you without you taking rehab seriously, full and complete transparency with you WILLINGLY and FREELY being completly open/honest (and that does not include secret prepaid phones kept at work, seaprate email addresses, facebook, phone bills going to your brother's/friends, etc), stop drinking, and marriage counseling.
i just want to be clear with where i stand. if you being here like you have been....off that phone, no drinking/coke, going to rehab, helping me with the baby, friends/family coming a distant second, spectrum days over...being a family man, protecting me at all costs....if that is something that you really want to do...a lifestyle YOU want, and not FOR me, then okay....but if you are doing this to try to "win me over"...or do that for a while thinking i will cave in and then go back to BS...then you are just wasting your time."
this is what i told him...and this is where i stand. if it is too much..and he has to bail...then he can go.
I think you stick to your guns here and not allow him back yet. Just know addicts are smooth operators. He is running scared right now and rightfully so but he has to figure all this out on his own. He is way to early in his recovery. The longer he is clean the more you will "feel" his actions speak louder than his words. As bad as this marriage has gotten you may just have to fall in love all over again, the healthy way. That isnt a bad thing either as i have seen it happen.
Im confused...you sent that to him while he was lying on your couch? I think it was good, but I think you're unnecessarily repeating yourself over and over. I think you've made yourself crystal clear.
If he's ill, I think it's fine that he rests until rehab time...but then he should go back to his brother's. I said before, that I think his visits are a bit TOO frequent, it's confusing a lot of the issues. I'm sure the baby is confused too.
I don't know...I'm certainly not saying to push him away, I just think it was too much, too fast...and I'm not sure how you handle that at this point. He definitely seems like he's squeezing his way back in....I just pray he's doing that for the right reasons, and not to get you to budge. Only time will tell on that.
Could you let him stay until the appt time? I think that's reasonable, and then he can go back to his brother's house. I'm sure he knows he can't just insinuate himself in to the house...right? LOL. Or maybe he thinks he can! Well, he can't. That would take a huge discussion, face to face, and you're not ready for that.
And by the way honey bunny, I was NOT trying to tell you to take him back in the house. I wanted to know what you were THINKING, where your head was about all of it. I hear you and I understand. All situations are unique and I don't think anyone can tell you what to do in that regard. One thing is for certain, you can't do something that would make you miserable and uncomfortable and you shouldn't.
Does he have a fever? Is he drinking? Fluids I mean, like Gatorade or juices?
hi you guys....so yeah...he wanted to talk about that email....and i basically reiterated what i said in the email....he was very humble....as he should be after all he has done. why didnt i have this strength a year ago? oh well...i do now, right? he said he wanted to do whatever it took to get himself well...and that more than anything he wanted to be home with me and the baby. he laid his passwords to everything out. he told me that when i go in his phone..or check history...there may be text messages in there from someone saying....
"hey man, i have some good sh%t." hmmm...so that explains why he was so worried about me seeing those phone records....i think one of you said the same thing too. he said he wants to be fully transparent.
he said that being here with me and the baby only makes him want to be here even more...he says that he just wants to be here home with me and the baby, working his recovery....he will do anything it takes to do that.
gosh...this is SO HARD.
yes, he is sick...but much better. rehab is at 6.
i am making a chicken...you know i have to cook to keep my mind occupied. and throw myself into my job. i am a computer analyst..and my bosses...are like..."wow....you are really going above and beyond!" lol....if only they knew why....
vic...you made me think about the same things that my therapist asked me to think about. basically...be honest with myself...and dont play games with ME. i know what you mean about every situation being different. i do. i had to think about what it is i am trying to accomplish. i dont want to be a doormat..and i think i have accompished that. he knows i will not allow it. my email says it all...and i told you that we discussed what i had to say. he was humbled.
i do want him home. i do. but i need more time before it is "official." i need to see him continuing to work the program...and honor those boundaries....earning his way back home. and for me, he does not need to be out of the house until the program is over. no. if he is doing well....and taking care of business, he can be home...and continue his program/recovery. i am going to be honest about that. that is the direction i am going.
but, right now....i am not ready for his car to be packed with all of his things being moved back in...lol. not yet.
honestly you guys...i dont think i could last a really long time with him wanting to come home all the time....and me saying no...and him trying harder and harder. you know?
but before that can happen...i need to work on me. i have so much anger...and the mind movies of the cheating are still there. they just are. and he cant move back here with me having those all the time. i need to work through that resentment...becasue it is still raw and runs deep. there is nothing scarier than a woman scorned...right?
my pastor on the other hand is screaming..."let him come home and you support his recovery and rebuild the marriage while he is home with you." but i dont listen to him. in due time..,,right?
one little "trick" my therapist told me to do when i have the mind movies is ask myself..."so....what is this doing for you right now? how is this making you happy?" she said keep doing that all the time...and eventually i will start to believe it. she said that it is pure torture. she also told me to do this..."when you think about this supposedly "love affair" that you imagine they had...think about how she would feel knowing he was begging to come home to you and the baby...and wanting to have a future with you. think about how even after you threw him out, never called him, he went to jail, and thought he lost you...how he still wants to come home. he had every opportunity to be with her or any other woman...and he wants to come home when the odds are stacked against him. think about how any "other" woman on the side would feel about that."
Very interesting. Bottom line is this: he loves YOU! Don't forget that; he makes it very obvious.
Yes, you're thinking...and I understand about those awful images...and he's being very patient and waiting for you. It's hard and you need a little more time and I can believe its just torture for you to have him almost begging to come back to the house...very difficult Honey...I think you're headed in the right direction, though!
I'm staring back on the thread starting with Optimus and I have to say that this is a fine perception of what's going on with you. The fact is Rudy was not getting support anywhere else or from anyone else, but by you. Yes, he could have opted to bask in the enabling (for a lot longer) but chose to take the right path, and it is no small measure of importance that he chose you, he chose sobriety over enabling. He respects you for being so invested in your marriage, regardless of the circumstances, (the first time that he became accountable for his addiction and spilled about the adultery) and this is ALL so positive.
I remember vividly the conversation that took place in your car on the way home from his first appointment. I remember the anger he was displaying. It is far too early IMO to even consider having him home.
Listen to me girl, you are doing all of this yourself, with the help of a therapist. Rudy, is getting his support also from professionals. You must know that you have your best interests at heart, and i know that it is wonderful to have people here that care so much for you, but, you are handling the situation perfectly well.
I don't care if Rudy was on the couch when you wrote an email. Yes, he read it and humbled himself to talk to you. That's perfect. It couldn't have been any better than how it played out. Take pride in your instincts!!!
You're afraid to look him in the eye and jumping into bed with him, i know there's shame involved, but there is also a very strong draw for the both of you to end this consequence and make things better, physically. IMO I think that's what you are worried about, and as I've said , i missed plenty of rehab appointments looking the love of my life in the eye, getting over any hurdles without proper steps being taken, and landing in bed. It's the reason for many couples to get back together right?
You need to keep your boundaries, very clearly. "What's stopping you from having Rudy come home?" I had my husband leave my sight for 90 days, when the same deviant behavior Miller. You've been so generous with Rudy. You've said that you feel that you "need to work on me", you're not threatening his sobriety by dating an old college friend, for goodness sakes. You're opening your home to him 3X + per week and attending spousal meetings with him. You are "separated", exactly IMO what should be happening right now.
This is NOT what is best for Rudy, this is about what's best for YOU!! Because when you look after you, then you're looking after your marriage. Rudy knows this. Now it's time for him to prove to you that he's willing to put in as much as you've been putting in a long. It's going to take some time for him to know, and for you to know, that this is not a knee jerk reaction, his "wanting his family".
It could take 3 months, it could take 6 months, it could take a year for you to want to see Rudy coming home wit a car load of "stuff". He needs to first prove to you he's serious and he doesn't want his sobriety for now, for a few months, he wants his sobriety (and you and his son) for a life time. Second, he needs to prove that he CAN manage sobriety at all. Can he manage his sobriety when things are not going all his way (and he's at his brothers) Cuz I sure did , I sure did want my family and my sobriety and it took as long as it took. Me, it was two years blood and urine testing every second day for two years, that i initiated, along with rehab, aftercare, getting a job, and buying a house. You are NOT being hard on Rudy. I'm concerned that Rudy is being hard on you. You need to be looked after here, you're the victim, you and your son.
Rudy can take ALL of what you dish out (for all the right reasons) and so much more to DESERVE YOUR FAMILY LIFE AND YOUR LIFE.
Ive been following this from the first post and want to say be sure of yourself. You have been terribly hurt and i really understand what your going through as have been through it myself. I noticed that in the begining he was not in contact with you and you wanted to let him know how much he has hurt you. Even in all the other posts you keep mentioning this and re-stating all your requirements to make this work. Since he is back in contact you still mention your hurt to him. Its as if you want him around to let him know what a terrible thing he has done. Lets say he goes through all the treatments and gets back to being a husband. What about when its time for intimacy and he is with you looking down eye to eye. Have you considered this moment. Im not bringing this up to make you feel worse but its something that will come up.
I think that some great questions have been introduced into this thread...very difficult ones, but very important. You have grown so much since you came here for the first time, and you have made such great strides to being a stronger person. You are very angry still...I feel it when I read your words...I almost hear it when I read the email you wrote to him. You ARE trying to punish him...at least that is what I feel when I read it. Like nurse said, you have told him all of the things in that email now many times. Now is the time to hope that he heard it, that he understands it, and that he will respect you and your feelings. He knows your terms, he knows how angry you are. Now you have to wait and see what he does with it. You are not a doormat when you let him visit, no matter how frequent it is. I think I'm trying to say that you don't have to keep telling him, because plain and simple, you are not a doormat...and if he does do anything wrong or inappropriate, you will SHOW him that you are not a doormat. Because you are still not at a point of trust with him, and you still do not know how this will all turn out in the end, you feel like you have to keep warning him that you will not stand for any wrongdoing on his part... I think that if you can start feeling more secure in yourself, you may be able to just "let the cards fall as they may"...I think that relates to what your therapist and vicki were saying. I think addressing questions like these will help you address your anger and resentment, and then hopefully move you to a better place from there. you of course will still be hurt and upset, but I would think that the anger is an added stress that you would be so relieved to push aside.
I don't think anyone was suggesting that just because he's spending more time at home, that you should just decide right away to welcome him home. But I do think that there is some wavering back and forth in your feelings and what you want, and that is confusing for you, for him, for the baby, and probably for some of us here. I understand WHY you are wavering back and forth...you love him.... but you are hurt and angry... I also agree with above that maybe the frequent visits were too much too soon, because you ARE still so angry. I think you are blindsided by feeling positive feelings toward him because you have only felt negatively about him for so long/ I know that you feel if you "give in" and start progressing your relationship in any way, that it will make you seem less strong, but you ARE strong...and you will deal with things as they come up in a stronger way. You don\t have to worry that someone will not think of you as strong, because you will prove it in your actions...in how you react to things as they happen...It will be your actions that really show people how stong you have become.
When you wrote "i do want him home. i do. but i need more time before it is "official." i need to see him continuing to work the program...and honor those boundaries....earning his way back home. and for me, he does not need to be out of the house until the program is over. no. if he is doing well....and taking care of business, he can be home...and continue his program/recovery. i am going to be honest about that. that is the direction i am going.".......
I think that sounds very reasonable...does he know that yet? If he did, it may appease him and might halt his questions about things like whether or not you are happy he is helping or spending time at home and stuff. That way, you can stop thinking about the "when" and just know that "if" things work out the way that they need to, he will be coming home. And leave it at that...no need to revisit the other side of it, like the "if nots"...cross those when and if you get to them...you are able and prepared. It's ok to let him inside a little bit, knowing that you will always have a little armour on for the time being.
As far as the "mind movies"....for me, I had them mostly when my husband was gone, and not as much when he was here....(he is gone a lot for work). I would think about it ALL the time when he was gone, but when he was home, I wouldn't...and I would hate when he would have to leave for work, not because I thought he'd go do something, but because I knew that I would be thinking abt--hell. This was after some time had gone by, so not during the first few weeks...the first few weeks I could think of nothing else, and was a mess. Your therapist has given you some good advice to try to help you with that.
You are in a very difficult situation, and you are dealing with things that you knew nothing about a few short months ago. I think that you will learn more about his addiction, and addiction in general, when you participate in treatment. I think that you may learn some things that will help you make decisions and feel better about them...like you will learn when to start focussing on certain things, and when to leave it for a different time.
I really am so impressed with the all of the advice being given on this thread...it's sort of like a quilt that is being patched together...some similar and some different views and opinions, but none that are wrong...and they all work together to provide comfort for you and for all of us really....we are all learning from your experience and from each other here:)
it's ok to let him help...you helped him when he was sick. u love him. it's normal and natural to allow him to help...it won't change anything too much. I hope you are able to rest...I am so sorry that you are ill...it's so hard being that way and having your child sick too...ugh, it *****. Take lots of time, we will all be here when you get back:)
I'm so sorry mama to hear that you're sick, and the baby too, it's good to know you're being looked after, it's as it should be honey.......nothing is going to change until you want it too, unless you're good and ready, rest easy my friend you have a great therapist who understands your situation so well, everything's going to be okay, no matter which way the cards fall, you are on the mend psychologically...like the physical body, your mind takes time, and takes all the time that you need......everything's going to be alright.....feel better.....
hi there...i am feeling a little better...i have that feeling like i am going to throw up...but it is a little better. my baby is doing better. my husband is acting like "mr mom" taking care of us both while we are sick..i am letting him. dont have the energy to say no....and i really dont want to in a way, you know?
last night was rehab. i have not asked how it went. not sure if i am suppose to. i do know that when he came to take care of us...afterwards...he seemed really quiet...like he didnt have anything to say. should i be asking what they talked about? i guess the first hour was him meeting with the a therapist...and the rest was with the other people i think. i am so curious...but i am not sure if i should be talking to him about that now? i can barely talk to him about my feelings....about me and him....and i guess i am not sure if i should be talking to him about what they talked about. what do you think? tomorrow is the family meeting. i am really nervous about that...it seems SO REAL now....with me going to the family meeting. not sure what to expect.
did i mention that he gave me the passwords to his phone. he told me that there might be a text in there that might come through from someone saying..."hey man....i have some good sh%t". wow. like i mentioned....that is obviously one of the main reasons he didnt want me to see those phone records.
glad you're feeling a bit better. I know you're curious, but i would leave it a bit and let him open up to you, let him come to you....and best wishes for your rehab experience tomorrow honey.....it's going to take you both some time to get used to the program....no fear....it's happening........just spend your time with as much peace in your heart as you can....i wish that for both of you...and am crossing my fingers and toes that the process is a healing one for both of you.....
Well, I don't know what you're "supposed" to do...but, personally, I didn't mind at all if my partner or anyone asked how it was going or how it went. I was glad to talk about it! But, that was me.
I think it's fine to ask:" How did it go"? If he answers "okay" and drops it, then let it go. If he talks about it, listen. That's all. There are no rules here. Do whatever feels natural and don't force yourself to ask...that's not your role unless he asks for advice or an opinion. You are not required to be his at home rehab person! lol.
Don't even think about tomorrow or be afraid or anything like that. It's supposed to be a GOOD thing and make you feel better.
Giving you those passwords is huge. It's some serious transparency. No...it's crystal clear!! I think it's enormous!
I'm glad you're taken care of. Try to rest and not worry so much. Things are coming along in a very positive fashion. I guess I should tell you that! You don't really know how this goes sometimes...It doesn't go well a lot of times. There's a lot of denial and resistance and yelling and hiding...etc. you're not getting any of that. I'm seeing that he wants to get well and will do anything to prove that to you...Do you see that? It's really going well so just know that Sweetie. xoxo
thanks guys....he is in the living room watching the game with the baby. i have never in my 12 years of being with him saw him watch a professional game of any kind without alcohol. interesting.
thanks for the advice you guys about how his rehab went....think i will lay low...and just see what happens like you said.
Life....thanks for the advice. i appreciate your perspective. it will be hard to look at him during those intimate times...you are right. my therapist did tell me that if/when we are intimate again to not let those "gremlins" ruin my experience. she said that those thoughts have no place in the intimacy that i share with him...if it ever gets to that point.
I only have a minute....doing the bookkeeping for our corp...just taking a break for a snack, and i'll likely have to get off the computer altogether soon since my vision is bad rt now...hope the books look good tomorrow hahaa...
I grew up in Michigan, a suburb of Detroit named Franklin...a tiny little village about 45 minute from Detroit, and from the border with Windsor, Ontario where I live now:) I went to MSU for my first yr at univ, (Lansing, but not far from GR)...where did you go to school? I've been to GR a few times...Grand Valley State...
I think you can ask him how it went when you see him after the days he goes....sort of how Vicki described it...you don't have to go further at all with it, that;s his job...but he may not even know if you want him to talk about it. But...it may help you on your family day visits if you know what has been going on...I guess you'll find out soon enough.
When my husband and I first were intimate, even just a really big kiss, I would cry. Tears would just pour out of me. And then when we were all the way intimate...I cried. It wasn't because it was horrible or that I didn;t want to do it, it was just that it was such closeness, and it was beautiful and amazing, and I was just so sad that something awful had happened. And soon, I didn't cry during those intimate times...sure I still did a lot of other times, but intimacy became a real source of healing--it was only positive, and that helped immensely to balance out all of the negative thoughts I was still having and trying to get rid of. It was sort of like I fell in love all over again as we got through what happened...I know someone above mentioned something like that. I had to let it happen though, but it did, and now we are stronger I think that we would have ever been otherwise.
Oh boy I always take more time than I plan to:) I hope that you start to feel better...I'm hoping it's only a couple day virus or something? Is Rudy feeling better? The baby? I hope so, and I hope that tomorrow is enlightening for you.
hi there...thanks for the reply....i went to grand valley state! lol! so long ago....but i do miss michigan. i dated a man from there for several years while i lived there...we visited detroit quite a bit....and he was from the UP...so we spent a lot of time there as well....lol!
thank you for sharing about you and your husband's experience...it helps. i think part of my problem is that i know way too much. when he confessed everything...i asked for all of the details...and that was a mistake....at least for me it was. i mean...i know way too much. he opened up too much about the details of their relationship...if you want to call it that. that was a lesson learned.
RED FLAG.....i found a receipt in his car for a beer that he bought last week.....before he started the rehab. i am not sure if i should ask him about it or not. is it my business? he doesnt live here...but he has been saying that he stopped drinking. but when we were at intake last week, he told the intake lady that he had a beer a few days earlier. the intake lady told him that all of that was going to have to stop. it just bothered me that i did see that receipt.n i have not seen him drinking here as i mentioned. but i did find that receipt.
no...don't put the receipt there,,,I wouldn't mention it. You said that he told the intake lady, and that was him being honest about it, and that is very good that he did that. He's in treatment now, it was before he started, I wouldn't bring it up.
I asked all the questions too....and he told me a lot of things....and I feel nauseous even thinking abt them for a second rt now. It feels like a bad dream if I think abt it or picture it....I wanted all the graphic details...and he was honest...but he also told me that he did not want to tell me because he didn't want to hurt me...because of course knowing the details made it hurt more... I think it's natural for us to want to know everything, and now having those details that fill in the pictures, do I wish that I didn't make him tell me those things? I don't know. I think it was necessary for me to heal....I don;t know... it still makes me feel sick.
It will get easier, once you decide to work on your relationship, just normal interactions with him will make the bad thoughts occur less and less. I think it will continue to stay the way it is for you until you start being husband and wife again, So if he is successful in treatment, and lets say for example, a month or so down the road he comes home, and then you guys just start living again. You will start thinking less about it. You will forgive him for this...no matter what happens with the two of you, you will eventually forgive him. He's not a horrible awful person, he did some horrible awful things, but he is not a horrible human being.
Ok....I'll post more tomorrow...I am up way too late, and I had no intention of posting any more, and I just automatically started typing! Silly me I need to sleep...hope you can rest tonight:)
hi you guys....feeling a lot better today...and so i the baby...and rudy. okay, he started to talk about the rehab....wow...very eye opening. i wasnt sure what to say...he was using a lot of lingo like..."the wall"...and what would happen during each phase of the process...how they do urine test every time he goes...and how it was hard to talk to everyone about his problem...but he said that he was glad he was going. the family meeting is actually next wednesday..i called. they said that the first week is only for the patients to get used to the program...family comes the 2nd week. so, he goes tonight...and tomorrow. he opened up a lot more about the usage....not sure if i was ready to hear it but i did. he is now saying that he IS addicted. how he was high on coke all the time...especially when he drank. and how he has to give up everything...weed, alcohol, coke...xanax...all of it. he said that it was really hard, but that he was committed and that it was good for him.
and then he started talking about how stupid it was to be doing coke and getting addicted to it. how he was selling it...and that made it easier to get addicted to it. how when he was on it, he became this very sexual person and he explained that he wanted to have sex a lot...good lordy you guys.....it hurt to hear this...but he was opening up...so i listened. he said that when he was with the stripper that a lot of coke was done...and that high sexual energy was heightened to the extreme. he talked about that in rehab i guess.
oh boy, oh boy....can you imagine me hearing this?
and then he went on to tell me how he was never unfaithful before all of this....and how he wanted to stop doing stupid, destructive things with his life. he said he was embarrassed to talk about his usage...his addiction...especially in front of me. he was glad that i didnt come until next week. part of me thinks he does not want to give up drinking...well...i think i know that. he kept saying..."after 3 drinks i want to do coke"..but i think he is going to see that he will have to give it all up.
a lot to hear, ya know? i mean...how much can a chick take? lol....you know?
soooooooooooooo, i am home "cooking' to calm my nerves. my baby is playing..having a ball...feeling much better and i am making beans...
i forgot to add that this conversation happend after i went to the pumpkin patch with my little boy. my husband met us there....it was awkward at first that he joined us there....i let my baby ride the pony and pet the animals...with him right there with me....it was strange...i didnt have much to say....but...it was what it was. i know my husband was happy...i could tell....me...not so sure yet....unsure.
hi guys....well...i learned a lot...a whole lot more about my husband's addiction last night. after rehab....he opened up more. he told me that yesterday when he got off work he wanted to "use." that is the term he said..."use." he said that he had just gotten paid...and he wanted to call up a "dealer" and score some coke. he said that it was hard not to do that, and was happy that he was going to rehab that night. he said that the cravings are really hard...especially when he drinks. his cycle went like this...he would want to stop by a bar and have some alcohol....and then get some coke right away...he would either drink at home, the bar or with friends...and then get high. at home, he would drink his beer, go to the mancave,and get high....sext...talk to his friends on the phone...be up all night....and also take xanax to bring him down. something like that. he said he would wake up and feel horrible...and then use again. and whenever he was stressed or had anxiety...he would do the same thing...the same cycle. last night he told me that even after rehab he was sad becasue he wanted so bad o drink...but he knew he couldnt. he said that it depressed him that he could not even have one drink. he said that he knew that one would never be enough becasue he always wanted more and if he had more, he would want coke.
he told me that it made him sad to think about how all the fun things he used to do...would not be done anymore. for example...he was telling me about how he loved when we would go out to restaurants...even with the baby....and have beer, or margaritas...or how when he would hang with his friends/family...he would drink with everyone...and now how all of that is over and it makes him really sad. in rehab, he said they were telling him that he had to find new hobbies, new friends...and learn to do other things to replace those cravings....he talked about getting into running. he said that he has bee smoking a lot...and that i guess a lot of the people in his group smoke. they did meditation last night...and he said that helped a lot. they told him at rehab that his brain has been rewired to think he needs to drink and do coke....and that he can NEVER have any alcohol.
i was a bit frightened last night by what he was saying...it was almost like he was talking about losing a bestfriend or something. he was really sad about it. he said that he wanted to talk about the craving he was having and i was not sure what to say.
i really didnt. so i just listened to him. he asked me not to do what i normally do and "try to make him feel better." but to just listen, and understand that he will be depressed right now. that there was nothing i could do...and that he didnt want me to do anything...just let him work through it...and me listen to him. he said he needed to go bck to rehab tonight and seemed to look forward to it.
my codependency did want to try and "fix" this....but i know i cant. i just didnt know what to say to him. he was referring to himself as an addict...and saying he was addicted again...wow. i am going to go to a nar anon meeting.
You did the right thing and, you're right, you cannot make this better so don't even try...listening is the best thing.
He sure got a lot out and it's normal if he's involved in his recovery, which he seems to be. He has to do that and, for him, it's healthy. It's uncomfortable for you but this is part of supporting him. He won't talk like this forever, he'll get most of it out during his meetings at rehab.
He's handling his cravings and it's very hard to be that strong but he's doing it. As rehab progresses, he'll have more tools to help him and the cravings will become less and less, as well. He'll learn how to make new memories beginning now and he'll find some new, healthier habits and hobbies!
Don't be surprised if he's a little down, sad and depressed sometimes. This is what recovery brings out when we learn it's over. It really IS like losing a best friend and I know it's crazy to you but that's how it is. Don't worry though! That only lasts for a short time. Pretty soon he'll realize how deadly it all was...and he'll feel relieved that it's over.
he and i have NEVER talked about things like this...so it is all very new. he still kept referring to himself as a functioning addict...and saying things like..."i didnt do a lot...or it wasnt like i needed to always have a lot on me." you know...trying to minimize it...but i still remained quiet.
you're **** a great job of supporting Rudy. it's hard to hear someone calling what has happened to you and your marriage "functioning" when, it was by far NOT functioning in your marriage, right? that's something that you'll be able to talk about when it's your time to talk.
you're doing a great job listening and it really sounds like Rudy is trying to be honest with himself...and has moments of clarity, like learning that he can't ever drink again...and trying to work through the depression......this is huge.......
he said that it depressed him that he could not even have one drink. he said that he knew that one would never be enough becasue he always wanted more and if he had more, he would want coke.
it's very hopeful that Rudy is telling you to not try to "fix" things for him, he is taking responsibility for fixing himself, he has hope that the program will allow him to fix himself.......
the best part of all of this is that you are going to a Nar Anon meeting yourself.......so that you can continue to be strong and confident that what you've done and what you will do won't enable Rudy anymore.....
everything is happening as it should be my friend........
As vicki stated "he'll be relieved that it's over". You are making new memories, clean and sober while watching the game, clean and sober while having dinner, helping around the house.....it's happening everyday.....your supporting him through all of this is a new memory and will hold a lot of weight when the cravings and the depression subside........
keep up the great work with Rudy and keep looking after yourself too!!!
he also said that in rehab he realized that all of the problems in his life were a direct result of him doing drugs/alcohol. i guess they talked about that a lot. he said it all seemed to tie in to that in some way or another.
the next nar anon meeting isnt until next week.
yes....our marriage was definitely not "functioning."
This is a really great forum! Millerp5, I want to wish you and your husband all the best through this journey.
It took my boyfriend 3 years to recover from his crack cocaine addiction - 3 rehabs, periods of sobriety, relapse, an arrest and almost losing everything he had worked so hard for.
The fact that your husband came home and told you that he wanted to use is a big step. Once my boyfriend and I got to the point where he could be totally honest with me about everything it was an amazing feeling. He stopped feeling like he had to hide from me, and I stopped acting like a crazy, paranoid girlfriend.
People say that a person has to reach rock bottom before they can get better. I disagree with that. It is a myth. Maybe for some people it is the case, but not in all cases. Check out this article. This is the approach I took with recovery. :
The journey through recovery is a difficult one. I asked my self this question at the start - Am I totally committed to sticking by him through his recovery from addiction? I referred back to that question so many times and my answer was always yes. It seems a silly question, but it's really not. It requires a lot of deep thought.
Once you make it through with him, and you will, you will be able to conquer anything.
My partner and I are dedicating our lives now to helping others through recovery from addiction. It can be done!!
ashley...thank you for sharing...and welcome! i just copied your link into my browser to read right now. your post meant a lot to me. you know the intake lady at rehab told us that their goal is to try and help the patient before they hit bottom. i like your approach.
yes, it is a serious question...about if i am committed to support him through this. i had to think long and hard. one of the people supporting this thread...vicki..who is awesome...said the same thing to me. am i "all in" or not. i had to really, really think about that. it was hard due to all the other issues that i have painfully written about on these threads..but i am all in. i just need to continue to get my own personal therapy to deal with the anger and resentment.
you see...my husband was unfaithful...and did some horrific things...and then i found out he had a drug/alcohol problem...it made things really complicated. but i am seeing my way through...i really am.
how did you get past the lies and decieit? or did you have to deal with any of that?
That's wonderful that the intake lady has that approach too. I know the realm of addiction study and information is one that is not so consistent. There is so much differing research and are so many opinions, it's easy to get lost and confused.
The second thing I did after answering the question, Vicki says it quite nicely, am i "all in" or not was researching addiction. I've read countless books and studies and watched many lectures. One thing out there says to educate yourself. This is true but there comes another question you must ask yourself. What do you believe addiction is? Is it a choice or do you really believe it's an illness? I happen to believe that addicts are in different stages - some may not even be addicts at all, just substance abusers. So at one stage it may have been a choice, over time it develops into an illness and the bottom line is, they need help.
Where does your husband fit in?
My partner wrote his life story and came public with his crack cocaine addiction. He felt it was the only way to start over (he worked in the media and had some profile). We had high hopes that people would be supportive. Looking back, I wish, we both wish that we had decided to keep it private. People are always encouraging others to talk about it openly, but society is just not ready for it. One reason being, we just haven't nailed the science of addiction down yet. One by one, we watched everyone in our lives drop like flies, the stigma even exists amongst health professionals, my own therapist even. My partner had resigned his job before coming open and he has since applied for over 70 jobs and nothing. Maybe it's a blessing in disguise for us to move our business along helping others, but it has been incredibly difficult. After he came public, I sort of went into hiding myself. I couldn't even speak to my closest friends anymore bc I could see the judgement in their eyes and in the way they spoke about my relationship. You really learn who your friends are during this process.
I don't want to watch other people go through recovery only to recover and then have to feel the nastiness of the stigma which is rife. One important thing in recovery is to have support, be able to reintegrate yourself back into society ie, working etc. To go through recovery and to lose everything too is not a great place for someone who has struggled with addiction. It's important to seek help, but I do believe in containing the information. Sorry tangent there...
When I answered the question of whether my partner was just abusing or was truly an addict, it changed the way I approached things. During recovery, relapse is part of the process and so are the lies, deceit and manipulation. I knew I had to be compassionate and supportive but never compromise myself and deal with things one at a time.
Im so sorry that you had to go through the hurt of your husband being unfaithful. Fortunately, my partner was one to use and be in isolation, he's sort of an anomaly. I did experience lies and many nights I would lie awake until the early morning waiting to hear the door open or waiting for the phone to ring to hear that he was dead. One evening I decided to take a shower and my purse was out on the counter, and of course he was gone.
Going through my partners life story really helped me to understand where his addiction came from. It's a nice exercise talking to your partner about their past etc, it's like a puzzle. You will learn so much about him and understand him if he is able to open up to you about his past.
Dr. Gabor Mate wrote an article and he said, the question is never why the addiction, but why the pain? I believe that once you figure out the pain, only then can you truly begin to heal someone who has struggled with addiction.
not sure what happend...got cut off. so anyway...i read that link of him and it was really good. i am not sure where my husband falls on the level of addiction. i do know that he needs help.
i found it interesting how this morning he told me that he was looking forward to going to his meetings. he said that he is making "friends" there...and they all have similar stories and can relate to each other.
I'm sorry Ashley that your husband coming out and telling his story back fired. I lost a job once as a security officer immediately after admitting that i was a gratefully recovering alcoholic, nobody wanted to know the particulars, i was just fired the next day with no explanation. I didn't need one.
Miller, i'm glad to hear that Rudy is making clean and sober friends in treatment. Hopefully they will help each other to not relapse and if one does relapse the others will join together in their strength and try to help the one whose relapsed to get back on their feet quickly. It's best that he make friends with long timers in NA, and has a sponsor who has many years clean and sober to relate to on a daily basis. It' very positive that Rudy is "looking forward to going to his meetings". I'm praying for him to stay strong.
ashley and night...i am sorry to hear about the issue with the jobs....that is very unfortunate. i think the stigma around this is just terrible. thank you both for sharing. support during recovery is so important. i am beginning to understand that now. i am a member on another on-line support group which i have decided to stop my membership. it seems like the tone on those boards to to run as fast as you can....and even during recovery....stay away. i am beginning to see that every situation is different. a lot of research and support is needed to really help decide what needs to happen. that is where i am...i read the posts here...and the links like the one ashley sent to really help me make an informed decision on how i want to handle this situation.
as each day goes by, and i learn more and more about addiction....relapse...recovery....all of it...i feel at times more compelled to support my husband during his recovery. i still have a lot of doubts...mostly because i am afraid myself...and dealing with the anger and resentment i feel from his cheating...but i feel like in my heart....and now in my brain...i can get closer to making an informed decision. not based on the fact that i care about him...no..that is not enough...and definitely not based out of weakness and codependecny....but based on the facts...and what i feel will be best for me and my son.
my husband talked to me today about how his group talks about taking up other interest, and hobbies....he is taking up running. he has always been athletic...but this is something he said will help him with his cravings. he said they have been working on "his plan." i guess all of his friends needed to be fired....they all drink or use drugs. i find that he is pretty much here all the time....wanting to be around me and the baby.
in some way....based on some of the comments he made...that being around me and our son....is in some way a kind of positive influence in his life.....and might encourage him not to run out and call a dealer???? not sure. but see, i realize that he has to do this for himself, not for me. i see that just being ar
ound us is not enough....no....that is naive to think that....he needs professional help to deal with that. maybe we are just a reminder to him of how good life can be if he chooses not to go down that path.
it is still very strange not to see him drinking....very strange. i welcome strange though...strange is good.
HI Miller, strange IS good!! listen, when i heard you say that Rudy was talking about hobbies and new interests, i knew that this was a good program. New interests are SO important for both you and Rudy to get into, getting into reading and talking about new books. I'm getting my son into clay modeling and wood sculpting this Christmas, and have sent away for a few books on creating a bust, and all of the different types of wood carving. It's relatively inexpensive, but so important to release stress. Maybe get Rudy a couple of things like this for Christmas? I sent a way for a whole bunch of books, and have to wait for them to come into the bookstore before i decide which ones look the best. I'm going to get him at least two books for both mediums. So, while it might be strange, to think about Rudy, wood carving or creating a sculpture, who knows, maybe he would enjoy something like that. It might not be something that he would have ever thought about on his own. Being creative is a branch of your feelings, isn't it? Just a thought for thinking of creative ways to keep your big boy happy, and maybe something that you can get into doing together?
I think that it is of the UPMOST importance for Rudy to really keep himself motivated doing new things right now, that don't take too much out of him. Just something creative that he can get good at.
You're doing good Miller, not making any long term decisions for yourself right now, knowing that there is a time for that down the road, after the treatment and after the sobriety happens. You've learned by your mistakes, and by your example, maybe Rudy can too!!
Yes, it takes a lot of thought and soul searching, but eventually, you will find the answer and it's always within you. I even chose my support carefully too - not all of it is always so great. Im glad to see you taking control and reading/researching. That helped me through the most. It also helps you to make rational decisions instead of reacting emotionally to things.
That's great that Rudy is looking to take up running. I cannot stress how important physical activity is. It's vital to recovery!! Many people over look this element (not just for recovery but for life in general). Not only will it help Rudy, it can help you too. Maybe you might like to take up running or yoga or something? I know for me, my work-out is therapist # 1.
I agree with nighthawk as well about him having hobbies or things that he feels passionate about. If right now that means being around you and the baby, then that's great. It is true that being around you and the baby is not enough. For now, it may be and it may really be helping him during this period. There will come a time when complacency may show it's face. And I/we will be a message away to help you with that. :)
MH has been having a problem with long replies. Try again....before you hit "post a comment", copy your whole post. If it doesn't post the first time, break it up into smaller posts, you may have to do several replies. As long as you have it copied, you can paste it each time you continue your reply.
Hope to hear from you...I've checked back several times to see if you had posted!
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